pouring lead in a steel shell

[Steve W]

Hi folks,Im looking to pour a lead keel in a steel shell and am trying to decided how to treat the inside of the steel before pouring the lead,or can i just pour the lead directly against the steel?
Steve.

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by Steve W

Hi folks,Im looking to pour a lead keel in a steel shell and am trying to decided how to treat the inside of the steel before pouring the lead,or can i just pour the lead directly against the steel?
Steve.

yes, but then cap the keel and pressure test with manometer, and then through a plug biff in a gal of clean oil or few gas diesel, but IF it is totally sealed and leave the manometer on all night, then it,ll be fine

[Landlubber]

also do not pour all the lead at once as the heat can warp the steel work

[daiquiri]

Pouring it in small amounts will avoid the formation of voids, too.

And this is also very important: do not forget to wear protective glasses and a respirator rated for fumes!

Make sure you'll be working in an open or mechanicaly ventilated ambient. Even a simple table ventilator can be used to blow the fumes away form you - just make sure they are effectively blown outside of the room and not just recirculating.

Lead fumes are poisonous and can cause some serious headaches, abdominal pain and neurological problems if inhaled.

[lazeyjack]

what i do is this, I put solid pigs in and pour the molten around it, I use a big iron pot with big iron handles, sitting on the floor above the keel
I use a big iron gas ring, and a big iron gas cylinder full of (no not iron) but yes propane, then i pour it over the solid, it helps cool it all.
i breathed lead all my life and guess what, i sent hair to good old USA for analysis and my lead levels were low
Poppycock about lead, men works in foundaries all their lives no problems, you can bet that IF lead were as dangerous as some think,. these factories would close
As for babys sucking paint on cots and dying!! a tale fabricated by lawyers!
What is dangerous is Zinc fumes, and fumes from ally welding, that used to make me very sick

[daiquiri]

Originally Posted by lazeyjack

i breathed lead all my life and guess what, i sent hair to good old USA for analysis and my lead levels were low
Poppycock about lead, men works in foundaries all their lives no problems, you can bet that IF lead were as dangerous as some think,. these factories would close
As for babys sucking paint on cots and dying!! a tale fabricated by lawyers!
What is dangerous is Zinc fumes, and fumes from ally welding, that used to make me very sick

Good for you Lazey... I've seen that pic of you with your wife and a bottle of a good red wine in between, and I see that you look sane and happy.

But we had an example here (near Brescia) of a person who worked in hot spray coating (though mostly zinc coating). He was well-known in metal sheet workshops, an artist of spray coating but also a person who used to work with no personal protections. An ex-rugby player, kind of human mountain, he was totaly confident in his physical strength... He ended his days in a neuropsychiatric hospital, barely moving and unable to figure out the world around him. His neurons were completely fucked up by metal fumes.

So, maybe you're right that lead is not as dangerous as zinc is, but it's fumes are medicaly classified as poisonous and I consider it a wise thing to warn people about the danger, even if it is just a possibility.

After all, the protections necessary are just:
1) protective glasses
2) a ventilator
3) a respirator.
It's some $50-$60 of equipment and I honestly think it's worth that price.

[Mychael]

Sorry to hijack your thread guys but finding discussion on lead allows me to ask a question.
Last time my boat was slipped (and it wont be again for another 12months now) I discovered that my lead keel (bolt on) had been damaged on it's trailing edge by the mooring chain getting caught up behind it.
It had left some pretty ugly burrs and grooves ground into the keel.

I don't think it's a structural issue but correct me if I am wrong and all I could this time was to clean up the burrs and make it as smooth as I could again but there were still some deep grooves left.

I would like to rectify it next time the boat is out so my question is if you think it's worth the bother, should it be done, and how would one go about fixing it if you feel it's needed.?

Mychael

[lazeyjack]

you cant really Mych, cos you woul.d not be able to warm the lead enough to smear in tin lead mix(same as old time panelbeaters did)
just bog it, wont hurt
daiquiri I agree actually, i THINK MY GREY MATTER IS NOT AS SHARP AS IT WAS, I ALSO HAVE TROUBLE SPELLING WORDS i USED TO BE ABLE TO SPELL, THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS, We have known each other 30 years, dunno how she puts up with me

[Mychael]

[quote=lazeyjack;236722]you cant really Mych, cos you woul.d not be able to warm the lead enough to smear in tin lead mix(same as old time panelbeaters did)
just bog it, wont hurt
/QUOTE]


Ok, so when you say "bog" do you mean panel beaters plastic or some sort of epoxy/fibreglass arrangement?

Mychael

[Steve W]

Thanks guys,ive poured about a dozen keels over the last 35 years up to 25000 lbs but never in a steel shell.I was planning to do as Lazey suggested and mostly use the molten lead to fill the voids between the larger chunks.Normally i would cast this in a greensand mold buried in the ground but in this case the keel is long and thin,only 6 1/2" so it can use the strength of the steel,also for various reasons we will have to pour it indoors.
So,is there any reason to shot blast the mill scale off the inside if im not painting it?
Steve.

[lazeyjack]

none at all, just pour it in, you can wait for it to cool, doesa not have to be one hit, just weld couple bits (tangs somewhere in there so if the boat inverts, the lead does not crash, but most portantly SEAL IT as I said you know manometre?

[Landlubber]

Lazy, on my last steel boat we filled the keel with diesel after it was done in lead, used a stop plug in the top, and left nothing for expansion or contraction, and no worries at all. She is 25 years old now and still perfect.

Yep to the pigs too, stack them in as neat as you can, trying to avoid too many gaps, and fill with molten lead as you go. make sure of course that you keep a detailed record of the weights installed, do not rely on the pile going down, because it will go down anyhow if anyone finds it before you are finished

[Steve W]

Perfect,i will cap it and do the leak down test and fill it with diesel.This keel will be going on a wood motorsailer which used to have mostly internal ballast in the form of lead ingots as well as 2500 lbs bolted to the keel.The boat had been stored in a storage building for 10 years and the ballast had been taken out and stored on pallets under the boat, which of course walked.
Thanks,Steve.

[Brent Swain]

A guy in Richmond BC was pouring lead into his keel without protection. He was warned but ignored the warnings and fried his brain ,becoming a vegetable for life. .Is that what happened to Lazy Jack? That would explain a lot.
I hooked one of those Norco face masks to a 24 ft piece of 1 1/4 inch plastic sump drain hose , taking air from 24 feet away. It is easier to suck air thru 24 feet of hose that thru a filtre, and nothing is safer, as long as you get a good face seal and don't have a beard.
Lead fumes are extremely dangerous .
Brent

[mastcolin]

Originally Posted by lazeyjack

what i do is this, I put solid pigs in and pour the molten around it, I use a big iron pot with big iron handles, sitting on the floor above the keel
I use a big iron gas ring, and a big iron gas cylinder full of (no not iron) but yes propane, then i pour it over the solid, it helps cool it all.
i breathed lead all my life and guess what, i sent hair to good old USA for analysis and my lead levels were low
Poppycock about lead, men works in foundaries all their lives no problems, you can bet that IF lead were as dangerous as some think,. these factories would close
As for babys sucking paint on cots and dying!! a tale fabricated by lawyers!
What is dangerous is Zinc fumes, and fumes from ally welding, that used to make me very sick

Eh? Lead isn't poisonous? Have you inhaled/ingested too much?! "Invented by lawyers"? Would you like to supply documentation/links to dispute the medically proven case that lead is poisonous? You have a medical qualification as well as boatbuilding experience?

Your comment on foundaries is infantile. Cars kill people, is doesn't mean they are illegal. Everything has a risk. You carry out all tasks whilst minimising risks.

Opinions are of course free, talking bollocks that could endanger someone's health is pretty stupid but go ahead if you want.

otherwise, you talk sense.