Origami steel yacht construction

[peter radclyffe]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

In 1983, a client went to a big yard for a quote on a bare 31 ft hull and decks. The quote $80,000 . I built the shell. Cost? Less than $3500.
Does that answer more questions?
The boat was Eclectus ,built for John and Pam who worked for a computer firm. They sailed her from BC to Mexico , down the coast of central America, thru the Panama, up the east coast to Nova Scotia, back to the Carribean, then across to Ireland and England, where they stayed. No problems.

can you please print here the scantlings & build details of both hulls

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by peter radclyffe

can you please print here the scantlings & build details of both hulls

The quote was for one of my 31 footers built to my design, and my scantlings .

[peter radclyffe]

what is the name of the yard which would build to your scantlings,
& what classification society approved it, thank you

[Brent Swain]

Allied shipyards in North Vancouver. He was told the big shipyards were hurting economically, so they would give the best price . Ya right!

[welder/fitter]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain
In 1983, a client went to a big yard for a quote on a bare 31 ft hull and decks. The quote $80,000 . I built the shell. Cost? Less than $3500.
Does that answer more questions?
The boat was Eclectus ,built for John and Pam who worked for a computer firm. They sailed her from BC to Mexico , down the coast of central America, thru the Panama, up the east coast to Nova Scotia, back to the Carribean, then across to Ireland and England, where they stayed. No problems.

Originally Posted by peter radclyffe

can you please print here the scantlings & build details of both hulls

Peter/all,
I've heard this story before and am very familiar with Allied Shipbuilders, as I have worked there when not at Vancouver Drydock or other client companies of my union. I am also familiar with them because of the following: In 1983 Allied Shipbuilders, in North Vancouver, owned & operated by the McLaren brothers, did not have an engineer on staff, rather, they retained my father. While Jimmy McLaren may have looked at the drawings & thrown out a number, no serious consideration of building this boat would have been done without imput from same retained engineer. As my father was not familiar with Brent or his designs when I asked him to read over Brent's book in the late 1990's, I find this to be more BS.

Could a yard such as Allied build such a boat for a competitive price? Of course not! This is a professional yard which, while competitive with other such yards, has the overhead costs associated with such a business. They work mostly on barges, coast guard vessels, fishboats, small ferries & tugs. If there had been serious consideration of building one of Brent's boats, My father would have had to review the designs and draw up welding specs for the construction, which he would only do in consultation with the engineer who drew up the original drawings. The drawings would have been reviewed by the CWB(Canadian Welding Bureau), as this yard was/is CWB certified. Bottom line? Neither my father, nor Steve Sui(CWB engineer), would ever risk their stamps on designs which were not properly engineered. There are smaller yards around, such as Bracewell, at Shelter Island Marina:
http://www.bracewellmarinegroup.com/
But one must remember that they have overhead and professional tradespeople - who do beautiful work, btw - and must charge accordingly. So, in the end, the story is more BS.
Mike

[bearflag]

Ohh Hai!

This must be where the "debate" continues!

::makes popcorn::

EDITED

[welder/fitter]

Originally Posted by bearflag

Ohh Hai!

This must be where the debate continues!

::makes popcorn::

LOL, not unless we're debating fantasy vs. reality, buddy, as I can put up proofs for both my father's & my own affiliations with this yard(Allied). It's the anecdotal evidence that I'm shooting holes through, as I've heard these stories so often and, in the past, often bit my tongue.
Mike

[Ad Hoc]

Originally Posted by bearflag

Ohh Hai!

This must be where the debate continues!

::makes popcorn::

As mike noted above, it isn’t a debate.

It is BS’s anecdotal stories being subverted as facts versus real proof/evidence and proper professional engineering which can be obtained from any independent professional intuition and/or text books or websites on prices of boats for sale.

It is clear for all to read….who is trying to spin a yarn and generously apply the snake oil and those providing facts.

If you have read the thread, you should have come to that conclusion by now.

[bearflag]

Originally Posted by Ad Hoc

As mike noted above, it isn’t a debate.

It is BS’s anecdotal stories being subverted as facts versus real proof/evidence and proper professional engineering which can be obtained from any independent professional intuition and/or text books or websites on prices of boats for sale.

It is clear for all to read….who is trying to spin a yarn and generously apply the snake oil and those providing facts.

If you have read the thread, you should have come to that conclusion by now.

Apologies... I think you read too much into it. When nutbags argue with scientists about New Earth theory, or about the factuality/refutation of evolution, they still call it a debate... though the subject is pretty well established.

I like the idea of these threads continuing forever for the sake of public education.

Even if there is no actual controversy, the perception of one opens up the eyes to the rational but ignorant mind. Those who are hoodwinked, well they would have been hoodwinked without the educational opportunity.

ADDENDUM:

Just as with the creationists.... it helps the rationalist community every time these clowns get shellacked.

[Wynand N]

Now I am left confused

What does the BS refer to in all the posts? Is it Brent Swain, Bull **** or something else...please enlighten me.

[bearflag]

Originally Posted by welder/fitter

LOL, not unless we're debating fantasy vs. reality, buddy, as I can put up proofs for both my father's & my own affiliations with this yard(Allied). It's the anecdotal evidence that I'm shooting holes through, as I've heard these stories so often and, in the past, often bit my tongue.
Mike

I support this endeavor. I don't have the anecdotal or experiential evidence with BS to refute his business practices.

But I am more than qualified to refute his mechanics. (:

P.S. almost bit my tongue off as a kid, not to be recommended.

[LyndonJ]

Originally Posted by Wynand N

Now I am left confused

What does the BS refer to in all the posts? Is it Brent Swain, Bull **** or something else...please enlighten me.

Being Stupid

BS Origami:

Blown Scam......Origami

Bendy Scantlings...........Origami

Bang ....Sunk !..........Origami

Beware shoddy.........Origami

Marketed for profit by the use of lots of Bull S.... by none other than Bendy Scantlings himself.

[TeddyDiver]

All above

[welder/fitter]

Originally Posted by Wynand N

Now I am left confused

What does the BS refer to in all the posts? Is it Brent Swain, Bull **** or something else...please enlighten me.

Obviously, I can only speak to my own post, Wynand, where BS means Bullsh*t. When I go to a thread where someone is asking a question and I am as interested as the OP in learning what the professionals know, it's pretty annoying to have to see the "my way is the only way & everyone else here is just trying to rip you off" rhetoric, over & over again. The tired old story is always backed by stories - not real proofs - that are either untrue or a gross manipulation of the truth. An example might be the story of these people asking for a quote from Allied. I believe Brent when he says that these people asked Jimmy McLaren what Allied would charge to build his boat. I am also saying that, based on my own knowledge, no serious consideration of building one of Brent's boats at Allied ever took place. What probably happened was that McLaren said that it would probably cost X amount for them to be able to do it, some number pulled out of the air. Why talk sh*t about a company that one knows "dick all" about?

As Brent's theme is to talk sh*t about designers, engineers, builders, etc., I am giving him a taste of what it is like to be dragged through the dirt, disrespected, have one's integrity questioned. No one with any level of self-respect likes to be called dishonest. Hypothetically; If I start building and/or designing boats and sell them by criticizing other builders/designers
(past & present), such as yourself, rather than selling my boats on their own merits, I would deserve to have you and others "tear me a new one". That's how I look at all of this. So, when Brent stops slagging others, I'll stop slagging him.

Mike

[LyndonJ]

Originally Posted by welder/fitter

.......

As Brent's theme is to talk sh*t about designers, engineers, builders, etc........

Wynand's told Brent where to go before now. Trouble is that Brent is as thick skulled as they come. So he just doesn't listen to anyone and attacks everything and everyone who gets in his way, and threatens his $$$ scheme. He wont modify anything becasue he has to stick to the BS he put in his book.

He produces poor designs, weaker than they should be, and fails do do even the basic safety calculations like stability. While claiming that he does. He's so ignorant of absolute basic engineering it's dangerous to have him design the boat.

He's been caught out now lying wholesale about several issues. It's so stupid to have so much attitude and get it so totally wrong, then use lies as a marketing tool.

His marketing and engineering are based on tall anecdotal tales of boats hitting things and being hit in turn. Some of them are gross distortions others were probably lucky. But with BS you'd never know.

Anyone considering building one of his designs should read the other thread.