Offer: true go anywhere Trawler to build "side by side"

[bntii]

Thanks to all for a great thread. It is a delight to read- struck though with the aspiration we all share to create a capable vessel suited to our own ideals and needs while it informs how the process is accomplished among peers.

Regards

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by bntii

Thanks to all for a great thread. It is a delight to read- struck though with the aspiration we all share to create a capable vessel suited to our own ideals and needs while it informs how the process is accomplished among peers.

Regards

Whats happened? has he managed to sell one, Oh I see given up.

Well its hard to build a boat, its very hard for those without a ship yard and the contacts and connections.

For those of us that have done this raise your glasses, it appears we are as good if not better than the professionals.

Is it true that 1 boat costs 1 boat but 2 boats cost 1.5?

Thank you.

Originally Posted by bntii

Thanks to all for a great thread. It is a delight to read- struck though with the aspiration we all share to create a capable vessel suited to our own ideals and needs while it informs how the process is accomplished among peers.
Regards

Nice words, though it lasted only 50 minutes then the opposition had to add their nonsense:

Originally Posted by Frosty

Whats happened? has he managed to sell one, Oh I see given up.

There was no intention to "sell" a boat and no one has given anything up by so far!

Well its hard to build a boat, its very hard for those without a ship yard and the contacts and connections.

Well, yu see it is not easy even when you have it all, as is the case here!

For those of us that have done this raise your glasses, it appears we are as good if not better than the professionals.

In your case I´m sure about that! Cheers!!!

Is it true that 1 boat costs 1 boat but 2 boats cost 1.5?

No that is not true and nobody said that.

May I ask Frosty; is there someone holding a gun at your head forcing you to spill your cr@p here? Why do you come here every few weeks to spam? In all the years on this platform I have not seen you contributing in a sensible manner (and I doubt you are able), just senseless contradiction and premature spam, spam, spam.......
We know you do´nt like the place, you do´nt like Icebreakers, Hayabusas (you cannot even spell it), and you do´nt like me (I cannot express how happy I am with that!!!), why do´nt you ignore this thread?

Richard

[dskira]

Originally Posted by apex1

It became a bit quiet around here for some reason.

Now I am still not sure if I will build the boat and there is no serious building partner left by so far, but if there will one come up, I will keep my promise of course.

Richard

I will not see that to a "giving up" situation.
A project of this maginitude can have some high and low.
Finding the right partner, dealing with the whole creation, organisation and the financing system is a complicate matter, and even if it is very rewarding to have all the creative power, it still a hard realisation.
It can take years before the first keel is laid. I don't see that as important.
I always find the time is not that important after all, sometime a good project can be made better after a pose. Sometime the right partner comes after years, the wrong one to early.
Anyway I hope we all will continue to give our thought about this ultimate no nonsense exploration vessel.

Daniel

[Ad Hoc]

as Dsikra noted, during the life time of a project of this magnitude there are the inevitable highs and lows, in terms of financial, time, stress, procurement, information etc etc etc...

So long as you keep going (whatever the pace) it will keep going and you will finish

But must get all the peices of the puzzle in place first before rushing off...no point starting half-cocked!

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by apex1

....The airstart vessels are not included, but thats not the world. Two tanks 75ltr at 30 bar and a compressor. The additional hassle with the inspection of the tanks / bottles every second year hurts more.
Richard

Appears to be a number of folks on this subject thread that have considerable experience with 'bigger' diesel engines. I do not have.

My question is about air-starting. I assume this method is used for larger engines, and is itself a smaller, lighter package than electric starting would be.
But isn't this method harder on the engine overall...more of a shock loading??

I thought I remember reading about a number of truckers who were going back to electric starting for their rigs as a result of these extra loadings?

Originally Posted by brian eiland

Appears to be a number of folks on this subject thread that have considerable experience with 'bigger' diesel engines. I do not have.

My question is about air-starting. I assume this method is used for larger engines, and is itself a smaller, lighter package than electric starting would be.
But isn't this method harder on the engine overall...more of a shock loading??

I thought I remember reading about a number of truckers who were going back to electric starting for their rigs as a result of these extra loadings?

No Brian,

the air is compressed to 20 bar usually. That is not a high load on a piston.
But there are several disadvantages of the air start too. The bottles have a high volume, much more than the equivalent of starter batteries would have. (though they weigh less).
And the air vessels have to be inspected and classed every other year. (cost)
When the air suction brings too much salt spray or humidity into the vessel, they corrode fast from the inside.
Least, the compressor is running permanently (coupled) and makes noise!

But nothing (except Steam Engines) can compare with a fat, high displacement 6 cyl. inline Diesel. They last for ever and eternity, especially when connected with a CPP, as in this case.

Just a few weeks ago I have seen the old Sulzer´s on board "Pasabahce" in Istanbul. They are on duty for more than 50 years now, day in, day out crossing the Marmara Sea. The old engineer told me, there was never a single failure or severe problem with them in all those years! And the books are complete since launch.
Thats what counts.

Regards
Richard

[Marco1]

Originally Posted by apex1

As many of you know, I am in the final concept phase for my own (ultimate?) passagemaker.
The vessel will be of a rugged, commercial appearence and by no means a "fashionable" boat. All systems will be of commercial grade and at least double redundant (except for the engine there´s only one, a "real" one). My NA just informed me that the hull was originally designed for twin engines, then converted for me to single. Means twin is a option.

Target figures are:
LOA 27,5 m
LWL 25.5 m
BWL 5.6 m
Draught 2.2 m
Range 5.500 nm @ 11.2 kn
Endurance 90 days
Cruising 11.5 kn
Max. 14 kn.

The boat will be build in either Steel/Al or Al/Al (final decision is not made yet). Both options are designed, and cost is almost the same anyway. Ice Class is the question. Not for the high lat. only, but having also floating containers in mind.

Yes, you are right. The wood / Epoxy man is going metal!?! Yahh, for a reason, Wood is not as good on icebreaking or hammering on a reef for hours, as metal. And it happens, no matter how careful or skilled we are. I know from experience. So, whats a perfect choice for a holiday cruise in the Med. must not be the best choice for 20 years of circumnavigating (I hope i have 20 left).

Now, before I start boring the audience, I thought about building a second vessel "side by side", that would save about 12-15% of cost. A wide range of customization of the accommodation is still possible for the second vessel.

I offer anyone here, interested in a custom newbuild to get his one built at the same time, same yard, same cost. We will end up at about 2 million each, due to the fact, that there is no profit, broker or overhead cost. Euro of course. Thats about half the common market price, or about the price of a tiny 64ft plastic boat from a well known US company, not ice (container) capable of course, plastic.

The vessels will be build under my fulltime supervision and survey, classed +100 A5, E2, to IACS. Build will be fully insured against yards bancrupcy, payments will be handled through escrow account of a Swiss notary of your choice.
Estimated building time is 12 month, laying keels is possible within 3-4 month from now.

Yes I will post plans and pictures, but not before construction is underway. My avatar does NOT show any similarity!

Further terms and conditions as personal requests in a private conversation please. Just send me a mail (click my name).

Kindest regards
Richard

So then, lookup your wallet or invite Granny for a night at the Bronx...........

Hi Richard, I like your project a lot. Best wishes to find a partner.

I have a suggestion that may save you about a million or so.
Get it built by either Seahorse marine in China or Asboat Yacht Building, in Izmir Turkey. Both countries are a good proposition to spend a year or so to oversea the construction.
http://www.seahorseyachts.com/
http://www.asboat.com/

Richard has boatyards in Turkey, Marco.

[Marco1]

Originally Posted by apex1

Well John, as mentioned earlier I am still open and much depends on the further discussions with a building "Partner"

To the single or twin engine question let me say, the boat will go well over 13kn due to the hefty 500kw engine. Lugger 23ltr. 1450 rpm or Mitsubishi 25ltr. 1350rpm, both 6cyl. and 500kw. Yes I know..............................

Regards
Richard

CAn I ask why the choice of engine? You don't like MTU?

[Marco1]

Originally Posted by mark775

Richard has boatyards in Turkey, Marco.

I see...I was just saying because Seahorse makes the Diesel Duck 55 for some 4 or 500,ooo in china.

[marshmat]

Marco, dskira - please don't start, guys. That sort of thing can be saved for PMs if necessary, or better yet not written at all.

CAn I ask why the choice of engine? You don't like MTU?

Richard has expressed a strong preference for a traditional large displacement, slow-revving straight six, of a style not found in the lineups of many manufacturers. For most yachts I'd say the kind of engine he wants is overweight overkill, but for the stated mission it seems to be an appropriate choice.

Re. electric vs. air start: IMHO, it's best to just stick with what the engine manufacturer designed for the engine in question. They know the thing better than anyone. As any railroad guy will tell you, big diesels are hard to start and stop. (For some reason, many truckers think the same about their engines, even though these can be quite easily cranked over electrically in a few seconds- I'm amazed by how much fuel is wasted and how many engines go in for early rebuilds because truckers leave the 400 hp diesel idling overnight to run an air conditioner that draws maybe 4 hp.) There is something to be said for a good auxiliary power system if you are going to be using a big diesel as your prime mover.

[dskira]

Originally Posted by marshmat

Marco, dskira - please don't start, guys. That sort of thing can be saved for PMs if necessary, or better yet not written at all.

Marshmat you are absolutly right, and I deleted my post.
Cheers
Daniel

Marco

both of these yards I know personally well, and both are far below my level, very far. Grenaa Diesel is the engine, if...
and:

This offer is not valid any longer!

I closed down the Steel yard, due to the market situation. And building at any other yard does´nt have the advantages we would have had here. The average market price of such a yacht is in the 10 mio € region! My offer was based on the possibility to get it ALL done in house and at net cost. And of course one reason was to keep the labourers employed.
Did not happen, so what.
Just, one out there missed to get a boat for almost the material cost. Bad luck....

The fact that I lost my Children in September still lets me think about the sense of building that vessel, I´m nor sure.

But when I build it, I definetively will not post anything here!

The dumb attacks and several idiotic attempts to hijack the thread by some uneducated, jealous ****** make it unattractive to share such plans and thoughts.


My special thanks to Daniel Skira, Ad Hoc, Mike Johns, Matt Marsh, Teddy Diver, Mark, bntii and all the others contributing in a sensible manner, I did really appreciate!


Regards
Richard

[Marco1]

Well, Richard, I did not know any of your personal history, the fact that you had your own shipyard nor the loss of your children. I happen to know those two shipyards because they build Diesel Ducks on a budget.
My interest in this project was genuine and my questions and suggestions likewise. I thought MTU was the best you can get.

I discovered this tread a day or so ago and skipped most of it because the toss and turns of some post makes it most unpalatable. There seems to be a tendency on this forum to get personal very quickly. I suppose it is better than an Italian forum though.

I am very sorry for your loss. No one is ever ready for the loss of a child.

I hope you get your boat built. Your idea was a good one. Building two or three identical boats is a good way to keep costs down.
I have been toying with the idea of getting a Diesel Duck built at Seahorse marine and sail it from China to Sydney myself.

Best wishes
Marc