Forming compound curves in heavy aluminum plate

[korvello]

BillyDoc; too bad i live so far [central california] ,i would gladly give you an hand ,are you close to water ?...maybe we could help each other i don't have a place to build yet, but even if you just need an hand let me know even if i'm in the midlle of building a big custom home [8500 sq ft covered area] i could find a few days to stop by and trade some of my experience in building for your welding and working with aluminum experience.

[BillyDoc]

Originally Posted by mydauphin

102 yds of Concrete. One could build a fairly large building with that alone.

Definitely! That's why I say their design is not exactly "elegant." All of that concrete is to make a foundation and 4" thick floor for a building 50' wide by roughly 60' long. The 5' stem walls along the length are 14" thick, and buried in the ground 3', on a 4' wide base that is 12" thick. There is a #5 rebar vertical stirrup every 12" and a horizontal #4 rebar every 18". The end foundations are smaller, but the same principle applies - - - "Punish the dude that insisted that we do this, when it was obvious we were just kidding about it and don't want to bother doing these drawings." And I had to tell them that the ground loading wasn't the problem in a wind, the curved roof would lift, not get heaver! Oh, well. Live and learn. It won't blow away when we get the next big blow. This is also going to be my "hurricane hole."

The boat will be roughly 46 feet on deck (50 overall) with a 7.6' draft and 33,000 pound displacement.

Korvello, thank you so much for your kind offer! I think I can handle it though, I've worked out a way to set up the forms for the concrete that isn't too difficult and will be pouring each wall separately, so I only need one set of molds to do both stem walls, and similarly for the end foundations. I'll be closing the ends with concrete blocks and BIG steel doors (18' tall by 16' wide). I have a very nice loader (Tackeuchi TL150) with a boom attachment I made up that will help alot with the digging and leveling and lifting the "rings" for the building. I'll get it done eventually, but that's why I think it is going to take several months.

BillyDoc

[korvello]

you're welcome BD; i don't know who design your building but it must be from the same school that designs bridges in california no common sense or understanding of the forces involved........over here we usually dig 6 to 8 ft deep by 2 ft diameter holes where the posts/beams go with quite a lot of rebar and tying it to the floor and at leats a 1ft by 2 ft deep perimeter footing ,4" slabs is for side walks not a building specially if you are going to have 16 tons kind of localized in a certain area ,it should be 5 1/2" minimun with 1/2 rebar 18 o.c. each way, your stem wall looked ridiculous all you need is extra lateral bracing that sould extend from and be attached to perimeter footing to the top plate and or corner post and should be donne in all corners and be rigid enoug to be active both ways ........just my 2 cents ,good luck.

[BillyDoc]

You're absolutely right Korvello, and I tried to convince them of this and even sent them a drawing, but no deal. They really didn't want to do the drawings at all after they had my deposit, but I bitched and refused delivery until they did what they had promised, and I had in writing, and now that they have I'm stuck with them. I have to have the stamped engineering drawings to get a building permit.

I could just pay a decent engineer to re-do it, but that would eat up even more time (I've been fighting this battle for four months now) and would probably not save me that much over the cost of the extra concrete . . . so I've just decided to pay for the concrete and proceed. And as for the concentrated loads, I'm putting 4' x 4' x 16" pads at four places where a big gantry will be supported to hold the boat. When building I plan to be able to rotate the whole thing with four chain hoists to make the welding convenient and down-handed, then when it's all done I'll put the lead in the keel and hoist the whole thing up to back a low-boy trailer in under it.

I'm already tired of messing with this building and I haven't even cleared the land to put it on. On the other hand, it is starting to cool off, and this has been one hot summer . . . so maybe the wait will actually be worth it in the long run.

One thing I have definitely learned from this experience: metal building salespeople are closely related to the vinyl siding folks that call you in the middle of dinner. They won't ever see me again.

BillyDoc

[mydauphin]

Dude, why do you need such a permanent structure. My boat is in yard next to Jones Boatyard. Whenever they get a mega yacht to paint, they just get a aluminum Structure like a big hanger and cover it with something like shrink wrap. They put ac and everything inside. I would have build something for my boat, but it was 72' long and 20 foot wide and 30 feet high. You can build a simple shed out of 2x6 and cover it with plywood and waterproofing material. Give me $20k and it will be built in a week. Seriously, I don't know what building code your working with there but you might be able to do something less permanent.

On engineers, I build seawalls for a living. I just fired one of a project. It was going to take 500 yd of concrete. When my foreman saw it, he said, "this piece of crap wont work, it will sink with pilings" and you know.. he is right. So fired engineered, hire new one that will design wall will mini-piles. Save the concrete, forms and about 30k on project. I think my old engineer worked for DOT and thought he was building a interstate highway.

[BillyDoc]

Mydauphin,

That would work . . . for a while. Just until some bastard trying to steal himself a deer discovered this treasure trove of tools way out in the woods with nobody around and nothing but plastic sheeting between him and them. I've already had problems like that, and I plan some nasties should they happen again . . . but I'd rather the tough building just keep them out. I can't be there all the time. I'd rather build in Pensacola and I have enough room in my backyard, but if I do then I pay taxes like you wouldn't believe for as long as I own the property. If I build on our tree farm, then it's agricultural and a bunch cheaper.

I'd rather be in the woods anyway.

BillyDoc

[mydauphin]

The first rule of boating and boat building
KISS....
Build a strong shed for tools.
A shelter for wind, sun and rain
Good Power and Water
and cheap because your boat is going to take a lot longer and more money than you think.


P.S. My boat is on Miami river full of pirates and crack addicts.
I have lost a generator and a water pressure cleaner, in two occasions. They cut chains, locks and busted a door. I consider myself lucky because neither was death blow. Hurricane Wilma blew $3000 worth of ALuminum Plates into river was able to recover half. It crinkled aluminum plate like foil paper, had to use sleg hammer and pickup truck to get it straight. Such is boat building... You never know what your going to go through.

[BillyDoc]

Damn Mydauphin,

At least it's not THAT bad here. But this is where I'm going to leave everything I own when I'm out sailing . . . and I have a LOT of tools. Some of which are very expensive. So . . .

Security through obscurity, and
Security through brute force, and
Security through trickery and general evilness.

There's also a very nice spot on my property to just sit and enjoy nature for a while by a spring. I gave the Sheriff a key to the place several years ago and invited him in any time he wants to nose around or just take a break. That cut my problems with thieves down a lot!

I lived in a civilized country once, where there just weren't problems like this. I miss it.

BillyDoc

[korvello]

BillyDoc hi: regarding my comments afterwards i realized that maybe you're building with those one piece curved panels or so and maybe my comments wouldn't aplly there if so i'm sorry ........ a set of plans up here from scratch will run less than 2000 with the engineer,sometimes as low as 1400 , i just don't know if the requirements are the same in florida ,but it shouldn't cost that much to find an engineer down there to review the plans and sign over and correct what you think it's wrong and may even save you money compared with what you have now.....regards

[mydauphin]

Engineering should not be a big expense. Try my ....friends at Engineering express. http://www.engexp.com Frank Bernardo is a good guy. I never get a bill more than $800. Tell him tony from Dauphin Marine sent you.

[korvello]

great deal Tony ,could use it myself...BD what is that about building a 3/8 hull and leaving your possessions abandoned seems like gamblig to me i think you have better odds going out in a fiberglass boat than not be robed if someone is not around specially in the wild ,a welded shut sea container my help butt i wouldn't take either risk ,getting someone to live for free or low rent in my property is how i intend to do it.....regards.

[BillyDoc]

Mydauphin and korvello,

Thanks for the advice, but at this point I just don't want to mess with it any more and will be going with what I have. I'll be buying more concrete than I need to, for sure, but at least it will be strong . . . and I won't be waiting another couple of months to get started.

I got a path cleared this morning for running in the power. I'll be trenching it and laying in conduit which the local power company is providing, then they will come in and pull in the feed line to a ground-mounted transformer.

It felt like progress! But I sure need a shower now.

BillyDoc

[korvello]

Good for you BD i hope all goes well. ..hope you don't mind using your tread to ask Tony if he knows about a cheap/reasonable boat designer-arquitect-engineer , if you do Tony i would greatlly appreciate any leads;thank you both.

[mydauphin]

Dont know any boat designer, architect... etc... I do my own and live with consequences.... ha ha . But there are many online and a few based in Mobile Alabama area, Miss and Louisiana. What kind of boat your looking to build?

[korvello]

Thank you TONY ; do you use a software program or the old fashion way? ...I design myself and have already most of it on paper i was just looking for an experienced guy to review it ,do some calcs and putt it on the computer maybe even do a couple renderings ,an arquitect friend says he can do them on FORM Z a cad program,but i would still like to talk to a naval engineer or somebody with some experience on the field ,i had to learn a lot on the building industry the hard way , paper arquitects and engineers are a dime a dozen on the left coast.