Cutting plans vs. kits

[johnno]

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum and to boat-building, so please forgive any silly questions!

My wife and I are investigating building a steel motor yacht. We have come across various DIY options, in particular buying kits which are pre-cut and ready to start assembling, and "cutting files" which enable you to (I assume) source your own steel and find a profile-cutter to cut out.

Obviously the ready cut kits are preferable and less hassle, but what sort of premium are you paying for this? I have no knowledge of current steel and profile cutting costs.

We have been looking at some Bruce Roberts designs and the costs of cutting plans are around £2500 for a 43ft trawler/yacht and arount £36000 for the kit.

I would appreciate any worldly advice.

cheers

John

[SolomonGrundy]

Johnno,
The main difference between the cutting files and the kit are negligable. Basicly the metal, the cost to cut the metal and the cost of any extras like primer or shipping.
Here in the states there are an increasing number of cutters able to perform these kinds of services.
It is my understanding that in europe, there are a number of cutters able to do the same thing especially in Holland and the Netherlands.
I guess practically it comes down to: a) can you get the metal cheaper than what they charge for a kit and b) can you get it cut locally to avoid the negligable shipping costs.
I don't know what those costs are either.

[Raggi_Thor]

I am not neutral here as I also sell plywood kits, but here's my opinion: I get plywood and cutting services at a lower cost than my customers normally will find. So while I make a small profit on the precut kit, it's still the same or lower price than it would be if the cistomer where to buy materials and find a local cutter.

[johnno]

I think what I'll do is get the plans and do an accurate costing to compare it with the price of the ready cut kit. I'll shop around and see what I get quoted for the steel & cutting.

I suppose the other advantage of doing this is that it may allow me to build the boat in stages, as finances become available

[cyclops]

Do not forget. Who makes good on any type of mistake by anyone? That is why kits from established companies are so popular with beginers. Buy the exact hull pre built and blocked up at your site. Then you can relax and enjoy the rest of finishing her.

[boltonprofiles]

Hello John,

We are obviously not neutral as we profile many steel boat kits in a year of several types in the UK and Ireland. As we have already spoken, I know you are investigating the advantages of having the steel kit cut in the UK from a reputable profiler using quality British Steel.
Hope to speak to you soon.

Can I just say to Solomon Grundy who also replied to your thread - I can't believe we do so many kits in a year if there is not a substantial price saving for the client.

Can I just say to Cyclops who also replied to your thread - as a reputable profiler we would without question replace any mistakes made which were our fault very quickly and absolutely free of charge. The computer aided design using our latest software and complete CNC control over our machines coupled with our quality assurance system almost eradicates mistakes these days anyway so it is very unlikely to happen and if it does happen it should be caught in time before it is delivered and can be put right without anyone even knowing at our works.

http://www.boltonprofiles.com
Paul.

[aitchem]

With reference to the cutting services, can you give some sample prices of recent works.?
I am evaluating this route of construction at the moment.

Also, do you supply the materials.?
If so can you get materials at reasonable prices.?

[boltonprofiles]

Hello Aitchem,

Please contact me directly at paul@boltonprofiles.co.uk or use our website http://www.boltonprofiles.com and i will help you in any way I can.
I would need to know what you wanted us to do for you in some detail to be able to price a job properly but perhaps we could talk and as I say I will help in any way I can.

Paul.

[D'ARTOIS]

36.000 Sterling for the kit plus addtional sum for the plans is not really that cheap for only a 43'trawler.
The whole thing is cut in two days max. ; the costs of pre-primered steeld (welding primer) is about 1 Euro per kg - so you may calculate what you are paying for the cutting only; the problem is often that the desiner does no invest in he cuting files, but leaves that to the cutting shops who offer in their turn the complete kit and want - understanded - the highest price they can get.

Very popular kits are offered by more than one cutting coy, so that there is some sort of competition.

The advantages of a kit are numerous. We could tag a casco in about three weeks together, taking about another week for the finishing of the welding, additional comes standpipes and rudder plus propellor shaft.

Today, casco buildin is a specialism, whether aluminium or steel, craftmanship is required. I have seen steel hulls that almost did not needed to be faired after.

I can show you some examples how one builds a hul togeher in Holland, but you may also look at www.euroship.nl - there you can see the building process.

[Luc N]

I think D'Artois means www.euroshipservices.nl
Click on the boat drawings for photos.
Pricing in the Dutch pages only.

Thank you.

[FAST FRED]

Why would you want to purchase a cut kit , but not purchase the welding expertise.

Unless you are already a certified welder , why bother to learn another trade?

Welding is frequently calculated by the running ft, and not that pricy for real certified expertise.

You build the "rest' which is about 90%.

FAST FRED

[bransonboats]

Having built steel boats by hand and with a CNC cut kit there is no comparison. Speed of assembly is hard to compare but taking into account lofting; a kit assembly is probably half the time. The fairness of the structure is superb, as the curves are computer generated and then cut. The kit plating has to go together corner to corner resulting in eyesweet lines.

A number of boat design companies will sell either the kits or DXF cutting files (including my own).

Using DXF files is straightforward. You need to find a company using CNC plasma cutting (not flame cutting). The cutting bed needs to be large enough for steel plate at least 20ft x7ft.

It will need to work to an accuracy of typically 1/8th in over 26ft. Material spec can be a typical boat spec such as Lloyds grade “A”. Get mill certificates for the steel and use cross check dimensions to confirm accuracy when the job is completed.

The cutting files are of course proven in that boats have already been built from them before.

How much is a kit done this way? Well typical files would be £2,000 here in the UK. The cost for cutting a 50ft kits about £3-4,000 plus the raw material. I don't know the prices in other countries.

Our company will send degraded files that are accurate enough for the purposes of getting a quotation (but not for building) for anyone interested in trying this. Our designs at www.bransonboats.com

Nick

[nickbranson]

Branson Boat Design Ltd

Just to let anyone interested know that our website for steel boat kits has been changed to www.dutch-barges.net

Regards

Nick

[alaskatrawler]

I have the Roberts TY 43 Trawler cut files I would be willing to sell at a good price contact me if interested.

Dan

no1boatguy@hotmail.com

[Raggi_Thor]

Is that OK with the designer?