Copper nickel

[alanrockwood]

Could we discuss copper-nickel as a material for boat building?

I realize the material is too expensive to be practical, but what if I were to win the lottery so that money is not much of an object. in that case what would one want to consider with respect to design and construction and operation of a ship made of copper-nickel alloy?

One particular question (assuming that money is an object) how much more does this material cost these days than mild steel, and what are names of suppliers?

By the way, Gerr's book has information on scantling rules for copper-nickel boats.

[alanrockwood]

I today I talked to a seller of copper nickel. In very rough terms, copper nickel plate costs something like $10 per pound for 90/10 alloy (90% copper) and $13 per pound for 70/30 alloy (70% copper) plus shipping. A "mill order" is less expensive, saving around $2 per pound.

[Dean Smith]

alloys of copper CUPRO NICKEL have been around a long time
Used mainly in coolers now
merriman bronze , alloy of cu ni and other stuff is immensily strong in tensile
To answer your question
You could build a yacht with a bronze cooper alloy the strength is absolutely astonishing I saw a Rhodes built off original plans , in Au, the floors and fitting cast in this, something like 33% of the thickness of mild steel were the chainplates. unfortunately the ship would need to be riveted to transverse frames An old skill
good question though

[Ad Hoc]

Originally Posted by alanrockwood

Could we discuss copper-nickel as a material for boat building?

Alan, in a forum, you can discuss whatever you like

The best way, to keep costs down, would be to make the hull only from copper-nickel. The internal frames and decks can be made from cheaper mild steel. You can weld it with simple 70/30 copper-nickel or Monel welding rods.

Would be an interesting exercise, to see what the overall cost would be.

But you would have to be very careful that all underwater items to be made the same or from a more noble metal.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by alanrockwood

Could we discuss copper-nickel as a material for boat building?

Have a look at this older discussion and references to some shrimping trawlers built of that material for use down in the extremes of fouling near equator.

Copper-Nickel, Seawater Applications

[brian eiland]

Looks like the old reference websites I sited in that discussion are no longer where they were formerly located. So if you wish to see that material, I imagine you will have to contact the assoc directly for an update as to where you might find the articles

[alanrockwood]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

Looks like the old reference websites I sited in that discussion are no longer where they were formerly located. So if you wish to see that material, I imagine you will have to contact the assoc directly for an update as to where you might find the articles

I found the article. It is now at the following link.

http://www.copper.org/publications/n...daughters.html

[brian eiland]

...and a few other references...Copper-Nickel Boats from around the World

http://www.copper.org/applications/c...html#coppermar

[welder/fitter]

Alan,
As has been mentioned, Cu-Ni has been used & many alloyed steels with varied amounts of chromium & nickel are worthy of consideration, keeping weldability, etc., in mind. While Cor-ten has taken a beating in many threads, here & elsewhere, it is but one example of a family of HSLA (high strength, low alloy) steels, as well. For a one-off design, however, it is challenging to weigh the construction costs & issues against the perceived benefits.

Don't ever hesitate to ask questions, suggest things, etc., on this site. I have learned a lot from others, here, by doing so.

Mike

[Dean Smith]

there was an AC yacht, think was Ranger? in 1930s, she was bronze under water and alu above, needless to say the alu lasted til lunchtime
Copper sheet is wonderful on boats esp oak, which the worms are into like fruitcake, sheeved in Cu the hull just lasts and lasts

[nemier]

Google 'Michael Kasten'
He discusses this material for hulls, in some depth. Quite interesting.

[Adler]

Originally Posted by alanrockwood

I found the article. It is now at the following link.

http://www.copper.org/publications/n...daughters.html

Is that say something to you...?

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/yo...lus-d_773.html


Think that a hull has not only to resist in corrosion but mainly to stress and forces.

[mitiempo]

Why not titanium? Interesting article in Professional Boatbuilder (#132 - August/September 2011) about titanium and its properties and a short profile of a 42' sailboat built in Japan entirely of the material. It's on page 62.

[Tanton]

TYD#964. 63'
C-N Bottom.

[Ilan Voyager]

Originally Posted by Dean Smith

there was an AC yacht, think was Ranger? in 1930s, she was bronze under water and alu above, needless to say the alu lasted til lunchtime
Copper sheet is wonderful on boats esp oak, which the worms are into like fruitcake, sheeved in Cu the hull just lasts and lasts

No it was Reliance, designed and built by Nathanael Herreshoff in 1905. The NA knew perfectly that wouldn't last but it was not a problem for an America's cup sailboat.
Made in Aluminum for above water, Tobin bronze under water over structure in steel...great galvanic mix.
On wood boats copper sheet is the best solution in tropical waters (very old technique initiated by the English for war ships in the 17 th century)