Brewer aluminum design?

[qwerty]

Vega,
This is what I meant...

By the numbers... Help!!

Yup, knew what you meant, but was just saying that speed is something going for all those boats over mine. Seems there was a miscommunication -- the Internet is a wonderful thing, but off-hand remarks are often misread. Should have ended with a smiley face.

When I'm bashing into the winds, I like to imagine how boats a little longer would ride the waves, but I also know that there are a lot of folks who would trade places with me, at least until the winds or the destination changes. The thread linked to above discusses this a bit, but I guess the numbers don't tell you everything.

You could be right about that Forna being steel, which makes the chineless hull even more beautiful in my eyes. I assumed in was glass. Have a new respect for their "round bilge" designs if that is steel. Their office sent me that photo when I asked if a fixed dodger was included in the Forna plans (it is). It's aluminum in the aluminum design, so I assume would be steel if that boat is steel.

gotta run,
cheers

[Vega]

Originally Posted by qwerty

When I'm bashing into the winds, I like to imagine how boats a little longer would ride the waves,...The thread linked to above discusses this a bit, but I guess the numbers don't tell you everything.

Yes, but the numbers say a lot. When I have time I will explain you what they mean. In the meantime, why don't you ask Northshore about those numbers for your boat, and for instance, for the new Vancouver 36 (that's like your boat with 36ft). I think that it will be important for you to have a well known boat ( with stability data) with which you can compare all the other boats (that´s what I do).

About bigger boats and waves, you are right, but displacement has also a lot to do with it and your boat is a heavy one. In my opinion (and based in my experience), 36ft is not enough for a light boat to have a relatively confortable motion (against the wind) with 2/3 m waves. I have done that in a light 44ft boat, and the diference is huge.

And by the way, the numbers you have posted confirmed what I was afraid regarding that boat. That's why I have tried to redirect you to the Mercator or the Hermine 36.

[qwerty]

Vega,
The numbers aren't for the Forna. Haven't asked for them. Figured I'd send for their study plans and if what I wanted to know wasn't there I'd ask. They actually are for the Lucas boat, which I also like.

I like the Greyhound and enjoyed Uwe's video, but one thing I noticed when I first looked at it is that it is heavy compared to similar aluminum boats. It's a bit heavier than the Forna, 8t, but has far less interior room. But perhaps it is a better sailer -- does look good in the video. Some of his designs seem very heavy, like Roaring Forty, while others seem ridiculously light unless it is a typo or I am misreading.

My boat wasn't built by Northshore. It was made in the UK by Phoen, which is a memory. The numbers would change from boat to boat, because there seems to be differences, some not so slight, depending on who made it.

cheers

[Vega]

I didn't think they were for the Forna. That one will have an AVS of at least 120º, probably more, but I had thought that they belonged to the Generic 35.

The Avs that you have posted is from the Hermine 36 biquille (twin keel), or is it from the "deriveur" (centerboard)? If it is from the centerboard, it looks to be in the norm, but for the biquille I would expect at least 120. As you know the one that I like is the Biquille, but if that boat has an AVS smaller than 120º, I don't like it anymore .

Check it for me: Biquille or Deriveur?

About Zaal boats, normally he does not say the displacement. Can you tell me which ones you consider “ridiculously light”?

Zaal is famous for the seaworthiness of his boats and it is expected that Disp/Ballast relation of his boats will be a little bigger than the one of the typical French designer, and this would give slightly heavier boats, but not much. Typically their boats have an AVS bigger than 130º.

About the "Roaring Forty", the name says it all, and contrary to other production boats with fancy names, he designed that boat to really go there, where the sea is mean, the wind roars and the waves are huge. If you want to sail there with a 40ft, chose a strong and heavy one.

About the "Greyhound" that was a boat designed for a solo sailor who wanted to circumnavigate. That design has recently been altered and the interior modified (I don't know if he gave the boat some more beam) towards more conventional cruising but the drawings that you see on the site are from the "Solo version". The pictures you can see in the Dick Zaal news page are from the new version (only the aluminium hull and doghouse). You can see that it has a nice doghouse, a lot bigger than in the "Solo" version.

About performances, and with a solo sailor, (Uwe Rötgering in that circumnavigation), boat best performance was: best daily run - 196 nm (8.17 Kn); best 7 days - 1.119 nm (6,66 Kn) and the best 10 days - 1.539 nm (6,41 Kn).

Not bad for a 40ft cruising solo sailboat.

[qwerty]

Lucas specified the numbers were for the biquille.

Pehaps "ridiculously light" is overstated and unfair. The 12.2-metre Runner is 10,000lb, the 11-metre Curlew is 7,500lbs. I thought there were more, but it could be I misread tons to three decimal points as pounds.

I would like to see the new version of the Greyhound. I will write and ask if he has info not posted on the site.

cheers

Edited... to say that I also misread (a trait of mine) the length of the Greyhound, so I take back what I said about the weight being less than similar boats. It certainly incorporates some good ideas.

[Vega]

Originally Posted by qwerty

Pehaps "ridiculously light" is overstated and unfair. The 12.2-metre Runner is 10,000lb, the 11-metre Curlew is 7,500lbs. I thought there were more, but it could be I misread tons to three decimal points as pounds.

.

If it was the case you would be right, it would be "ridiculously light".

But:

About the Curlew, the 7500 lbs is the ballast. Look at the metric units: Displacement :8170Kg (19201lbs); Ballast: 3400kg (7495lbs).

About the Runner, the displacement in lbs is wrong.

In metric units the displacement is 10,6m3 and this is aprox. 10,6T, or 10 600kg or 23 368lbs.

About the runner, it is very similar to an aluminium "Contest", a very famous boat, designed by Zaal.

http://www.contestyachts.com/company...ec190259f5890d

Take a look at the "Classic" page on the Contest site.

http://www.contestyachts.com/_sitemf.html

Contests are very expensive and good boats that reach very high prices in the used boats market.

The company has chosen to discontinue is "small" boats production and the smallest he builds now is the 44ft (nice boat, as usual on the Contest line).

[Vega]

Qwerty, about AVS and RM numbers, please do me a favor and have a little home work.

Read what has been posted on these links about it. It is not much, and they will explain to you the basics, better than I can.

Read respecting the order:

http://www.rya.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/4...ilityIntro.pdf

http://www.maloyachts.se/Portals/0/STABILIT.PDF

[qwerty]

Yes, I was scanning the pages too fast. I should blame it on work, but I was only at work for half of the fun so I must take some of the blame. I need my holiday.

I will look at those pdf files, but it will have to wait. I'm off tomorrow for two weeks to play on the boat while my wife is off in Canada visiting everyone in the whole country. Will put in a couple seacocks, something I've never done and a type (Blakes) that I've never used. Live and learn.

Did follow a link to the Contest site last night. Nice site, nice boats, they do look expensive. Noticed the Zaal designed a lot of the classis. Frankly, I didn't care much for some of their current designs, but designs often grow on me, like all of us, and I'm sure they are well made.

Gotta run. It's 0145 and I have to get to bed. Find me some great designs!

[Vega]

qwerty, these are the data on stability for the Vancouver 28 (Vancouver 27 with slight alterations):

VANCOUVER 28 STIX: 36; AVS 170

These are very impressive numbers. Regarding seaworthiness your boat is a very good boat for its size

[qwerty]

Vega, thanks for the numbers. Very interesting. Maybe I should stick with her!

Yes there are some differences between the 27 and 28, but not that many that would be visible to the eye. Also like the sailplan sketch that you attached. I will add it to my collection

Haven't read your pdf links yet, but will get on it soon. Hard to focus on a dream boat when my real life boat needs so much love and attention.