aluminum cans on the ocean floor

[Poida]

Sam I was taught in chemistry at school that man can neither create nor destroy merely change.

Mind you I never did understand what it means along with everything else I was supposed to learn at school.

But I just thought it fitted in here for some strange reason.

Poida

[USCGRET/E8]

Supposedly, the area off shore where NYC dumps their garbage is a dead sea with no life at all.

[USCGRET/E8]

Originally Posted by sjo hest

Yes, Roly, the whole subject came up because I indeed "give a rat's ass." I was teaching 5th graders a "leave no trace" outdoor ethics course and was emphasizing how long different items could trash up the environment if left. I quoted what I'd heard, that an aluminum can could last up to 180 years on the ocean floor, and I was later challenged by an adult who believed that couldn't possibly be true. Thus I asked this forum as well as other sources for confirmation. Answers have been varied and extremely interesting!

Rest assurred, if they throw an al can into a clear, cold Montana Lake...it'll be there a very long time...

[SamSam]

Originally Posted by Poida

Sam I was taught in chemistry at school that man can neither create nor destroy merely change.

Mind you I never did understand what it means along with everything else I was supposed to learn at school.

But I just thought it fitted in here for some strange reason.

Poida

Maybe that's true about creating new elements, but I think man can take elements and compounds and break them down into things not found in nature and then combine them into more things not found in nature. I think.

If that's true, what happens when affluents are dumped into the environment and randomly combine into who knows what. A lot of them are already known to be harmfull to life and everything possible is done to keep them from the environment, at least here in the USA, but what if two harmless things combine into something bad we don't know about?

As further thread drift, what good does it actually amount to in the long run if our rivers are clean and sparkly and the rest of the world dumps their crap into the worlds bloodstream?

[jehardiman]

Originally Posted by charmc

Dealing with fresh, brackish, and seawater chemistry is a major part of what I do for a living. Chlorides are the principle corrosive compounds in seawater. If you want to run your tests a bit faster, try heating the seawater to 90-120 deg F; it will accelerate the corrosion rapidly, especially on austenitic stainless steels, even 316 and 316L. If you are designing a vessel intended to spend any significant time in the tropics, I would recommend replacing any 316 stainless pipe, tubing, or fittings with plastic. If it must be metal, use a duplex or one of the "super duplex" alloys.

Again, you're right in your points, but none of that justifies dumping waste.

Actually, the problem in using seawater is the environmental law. If I take seawater from Puget Sound and use it in a "labratory" process, it must meet EPA heavy metal discharge limits before I can dump it back in. It wouldn't meet discharge limits when I took it in! At one time, the EPA argued that we would have to evaporate and dispose of as toxic waste ALL THE WATER LET INTO THE DRYDOCKS because they had been through "an industrial process" and where therefore subject to the Clean Water Act. Luckly, saner thoughts prevailed.

BTW, stainless steel and plastic pipes and fittings are a no-no in sea connected systems. They have demonstrated poor service life. Better to use copper, Ni-Cu, or Ti alloys

And as a bigger aside, I never avocated dumping waste, but rather pointed out that no matter what we do, it's all going to end up in the natural process anyway. Just a matter of time and scale. To me, a lot of environmental law is just NIMBY.

[Roly]

And as a bigger aside, I never avocated dumping waste, but rather pointed out that no matter what we do, it's all going to end up in the natural process anyway.

A relative no-brainer given the neural pathways you have have available J E.

Just a matter of time and scale..

Theres the crunch. And whether we use our abilities to process our waste, in quantity and form, to be assimilated into the ecosystem and have minimum impact, or ignore the future? If in exploiting earth resources, corporations can't do this cost effectively with their by products then enviromental law should outlaw a process.

However constrainting and illogical it may be at this stage ,it is a start,and it will evolve.


I would have thought, given the huge number of planets that like P. earth that have the fine balance of physics and chemistry to sustain life, we would be less glib on our permanence here.

[jehardiman]

Originally Posted by Roly

I would have thought, given the huge number of planets that like P. earth that have the fine balance of physics and chemistry to sustain life, we would be less glib on our permanence here.

Planets like Terra?...or just planets? Life?...or life like ours? I'll steer away from opening that egocentric bag of fluff.... .

[Roly]

Yeah, good point.
I'll just go back to my boat shed and use more carbon credits than I'm due. Much more satisfying.

Skin the inner transom core and a quick postcure backyard style and we are ready to pop it out of the mold!!!!

[dick stave]

This is a Metal boat building forum, and you want to debate empties?

[aitchem]

As I recall, aluminium in the diet causes alzheimer's, do you think the fish become forgetfull ?

[Roly]

As does mercury...and my teeth are full of it.You ever go to the next room and can't remember why you are there?
Oh that right , it is a male thing. No multitasking ability!

[longliner45]

tin,comes ..from the bottom of the ocean,,,,its mined in se asia it is used to make aluminum,longliner

[longliner45]

there is alott we can all do to keep pollution at bay,,,,for example ,I allways tear up my 6 pack plastics to keep animales from getting it around the neck,always recycle your cans and bottles and plastics,never throw your cheese wrappers in the ocean ,,turtles eat them because they think it is a jellyfish,,,,,,,,leave nature as you found it ,even if it means you have to make a effort,,,,and never kill anything that is not trying to kill you,,everything has a place and purpose,longliner

[Poida]

Noticed this weekend that aluminium cans full of beer don't last long in my fridge.

Poida

[timgoz]

I have the same problem Poida. Got a six-pack last night & it's totally gone this morning. My friends fridge must have a different enviroment. He has had three cans of beer in his for over a week.

On a serious note: I always pack everything out, including my cigarette butts. When fishing take any small (or large) pieces on monofiliment fishing line out with you. I,ve seen waterfowl and other animals hopelessly entangled in discarded line.

Tim