White Cedar (and lots of it)

Discussion in 'Materials' started by ProjectFiji.com, Nov 26, 2008.

  1. ProjectFiji.com
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    ProjectFiji.com Junior Member

    Why $10,000 worth of radios and nav gear? Who says that you need this? Our ancestors didn't have this, and they traveled in boats far more crude than what we would imagine today. That's been the mentality that has driven me to a bare bones budget expedition more than anything else. What happened to adventure? What happened to exploring?

    I'm sure at some point in time people were safely making passages without this equipment. At what point in time did we decide it was required? I agree. I'd love to have the equipment. LOVE IT. But do we need it? I don't think so. While we will most likely have some sort of nav software, I'd like to turn it off. Make a passage or two the old fashioned way. Navigate via the stars.

    Different people have different views of risk. I guess I've become a little desensitized to it. Please don't consider me brash or reckless. But I believe that when your time is up, your time is up, be it 4,000 miles out to sea, or in the comfort of your own home.
     
  2. rasorinc
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    rasorinc Senior Member

    Is your familys time up????Is Your friends time up???Is your sons time up????
    Should this coincede with YOUR TIME UP???? Columbus did a lot of ocean sailing before setting off to the edge of the world. There was a famous man who sailed a REED BOAT from the western PacifiC to the Eastern Pacific W/O
    MUCH GEAR. READ ABOUT HIS ADVENTURES.
     
  3. ProjectFiji.com
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    ProjectFiji.com Junior Member

    Why fear risk? I understand why risk more than necessary. But why fear it?

    Why limit yourself to never voyaging further than eyesight from land?
     
  4. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Budget? I'm building a 33' motorsailer and (still) counting to invest total of 35-40k euros. 38'er might take twice that amount so $100k is my questimate. You can't do it cheaper without a good friend in a junkyard. But there's never upper limits...
     
  5. ProjectFiji.com
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    ProjectFiji.com Junior Member

    What amount of $$,$$$ is your diesel and outdrive? What type of construction are you doing?
     
  6. Ilan Voyager
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    ProjectFiji.com you can do any expedition barefoot with the equipment of a neolithic sailor if you want but do it ALONE or with adult people having the same goals. If you die it was your own skin, and it's your freedom. Not with wife and child in the same boat...

    What are doing with a such useless piece of **** called substandard made boat if you're following this way? what are you going to prove? Some guys have crossed the Atlantic in 6 to 10 feet sail boats ALONE, even the Atlantic has been crossed with an amphibian jeep followed by a boat full of gas for the jeep. No child in the jeep, nor in the boat.

    Spend a few bucks, buy the Gougeon Bros on boat construction, read it five times and more. There are important chapters at the beginning about the estimation of materials and cost.

    If you have not the money, do not stay in a dead end, choose another project. Less expensive and as rewarding. There are plenty.

    Your kind of dreams may become nightmares without the funding.
     
  7. ProjectFiji.com
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    ProjectFiji.com Junior Member

    Gougeon Bros book is next on the list along with Chris White's book.

    And please don't think I'm going to do anything reckless that would endanger anyone but myself. I just figured I'd stir the pot a bit. ;) That said, if I can build in a safe manner, that's exactly what I'm going to do.

    And nobody here has said much more than "The white cedar is bad. Don't use white cedar." Can someone explain why?

    Page 175 of Gerr's book says:

    Medium Size Boats 20 to 45 feet
    Planking: Honduras mahogany preferred, Phillippine mahogany second-best, white cedar, Port Orford cedar, teak, yellow pine.

    Let's throw the catamaran angle out the window for a minute. Is everyone saying that Gerr is wrong, and that a reasonable mono with a 3.0 or less Scantling number cannot be planked safely in White Cedar?
     
  8. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Diesel (71hp) with gearbox $10k, Shft&prop $3-6k? (depends).
    20mm strip planking white spruce (local, free) /glassfiber Biaxial 1500gsm outside 1100gsm in /300kg of epoxy (West/Gougeon bros) $5k.
     
  9. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Nope.. just reread PAR's post's in this thread.
    And by the way, I wouldn't never even think of building a boat out of mahogany in anyway near where's freezing temps..
     
  10. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Not at all....I believe several, including Par and myself have said that the use of any material depends on context.

    Talking about any material use requires some information as to what it's being used for. You need to state what design and what construction method is to be used before anyone can offer guidance as to the long term suitability of a particular wood species. White cedar is fine in certain applications, don't expect professionals to give blanket endorsements for an unknown use.

    Can you build a plank on frame boat shaped object of white cedar and sail it around the world? Yes, you can, but don't tarry or your object (home) may fall to bits along the way.

    Understand that the lumber (whatever species) is only a tiny portion of the cost of the boat. Have you thought about the cost of paint, fastenings, sails, line, blocks, and hardware, never mind the radios you don't need? White cedar will deteriorate rapidly in the tropics (you didn't mention high-latitude voyaging) unless well protected by good paint or fiberglass, or another more durable wood species. The lumber must be fastened together with something, it can't be done with drywall screws. Good fastenings cost a great deal these days.

    Can people with no experience build a boat and sail around the world? Absolutely, Harry Pidgeon comes to mind.
     
  11. ProjectFiji.com
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    ProjectFiji.com Junior Member

    So let's say White Cedar, glass sheathed. Now what would we build?
     
  12. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Allmost anything, mono or multihull, canoes, sailboats, power.. you name it!
    Now, you got to put up your expectations considering the boat, and start to browse designs meeting most of them..
     
  13. rasorinc
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    rasorinc Senior Member

  14. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler


  15. ProjectFiji.com
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    ProjectFiji.com Junior Member

    I like this design. Who is the designer and what does he charge for prints? Whatever it is, I'm too cheap to pay for them, so do you think we could all put our heads together and figure out how to build it? I really like all the upper level deck space, as I plan on getting skin cancer as I sail around the globe.
     
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