Unusual boatbuilding technique for steel yachts 26'-40'

[origamiboats]

I am preparing to build a 40 foot steel yacht to a design by Canadian designer Brent Swain. The hull is built using an unusual "folded steel" technique, sometimes called "Origami" boatbuilding.

I've set up a Yahoo group with photos of other boats, as well as information about them, for anyone interested (see below). If anyone is building one of these boats, I'd love to hear from them.

Alex Christie

[Admin]

Just to keep things tidy, see also:
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...p?threadid=248

[tugboat]

I am very interested in this method and wonder if it can be used on a 30 ft tugboat i have plans for?... the designer of the plans mentions that you can do it- but doesnt specify "which" design he sells that would be good for this method...what are the limits for thicknesses in steel? and can you do a "v" type hull? how can this method not need tranverse framing?
Im very keen on the idea for my next boat...please advise?

Did you notice that you are replying on a thread almost dead for ten years ?

Do you know that the mentioned "designer" is a Forum member? (a very controversely discussed one)

[tugboat]

Originally Posted by apex1

Did you notice that you are replying on a thread almost dead for ten years ?

Do you know that the mentioned "designer" is a Forum member? (a very controversely discussed one)

whats your point Apex1???..

[tugboat]

Apex1- are YOU aware that the forum wont let you post unless you know the age???.hmm guess you dont know what your talkign about after all....are you aware that your reading a ten year old post too?n that makes you a hypocrite... are you aware that i really dont give a crap what your opinion is and that none of your posts have ever helped me - maybe you need attention or something since all ive ever seen in your posts is negativity...next time ill just ignore you...you wont get you negative attention needs from me...
why dont you actually go get a life and build a boat instead of reading boat forums all day, trying to input as much crap as you do, and pointing out the obvious and irrelevant things you do...

Originally Posted by tugboat

that none of your posts have ever helped me -

bad luck for you, others did gain something...

since all ive ever seen in your posts is negativity.

that proves you are not well informed

why dont you actually go get a life and build a boat instead of reading boat forums all day, trying to input as much crap as you do, and pointing out the obvious and irrelevant things you do...

Actually I DO have a life and build boats! Not one, many.

[Milan]

Originally Posted by tugboat

… I am very interested in this method and wonder if it can be used on a 30 ft tugboat i have plans for?... and can you do a "v" type hull? how can this method not need tranverse framing? …

Almost any chine type, (single or multi-chine), hull can be built in Origami method.

Normal scantling rules apply. Tranverse framing could be minimised / avoided by using more longitudinal frames instead.

Origami links:
http://www.yago-project.com/index.php?lang=en
http://www.origamimagic.com/
http://www.freewebs.com/origamiboats/

[tugboat]

Thanks Milan--this is good news for me since if i can eliminate frames i can save a lot of money--now for a tugboat hull 45 ft the scantlings call for 1/4 inch plate...and 33- 3/8 inch frames...so if i minimalized the frames and used them basically to form the steel and added longitudinal stiffeners--the boat should be able to be bent to the right shapes?..even round bilge designs??..i hope i am understanding all this correctly? the implications would suggest that i dont even need a strongback or a frames set up?...
please-- any more info on this is greatly appreciated--ill go and sign up at the yahoo site too...thias could be just the thing i need for my boat project...
whats your take on round bilge designs?

[tazmann]

Tug
No its not that easy. You asked about doing a 30' hard chine hull and yes that one could be done but now you switched to a 45' round bilge , completely different animal there. If you want a Round bilge there is no shortcuts . Origami method is a fast way of doing things but your limited on hull shapes. If you did get a close copy say using 2 darts-chines in the center then added the frames after, what would you save?
Tom

[tugboat]

Originally Posted by tazmann

Tug
No its not that easy. You asked about doing a 30' hard chine hull and yes that one could be done but now you switched to a 45' round bilge , completely different animal there. If you want a Round bilge there is no shortcuts . Origami method is a fast way of doing things but your limited on hull shapes. If you did get a close copy say using 2 darts-chines in the center then added the frames after, what would you save?
Tom

hi Tom--yes i have two plans for two different designs--one smaller at 27 ft ft that needs to be redesigned (by adding a "v" hull to a flat bottom design) and rescaled by 10% to accomodate a larger engine and 36 inch prop- the second a well designed and in my opinion overdesigned 45 ft army/navy tug design with a round bilge

I love the round bilge design- the way she sits in the water and her lines etc... but of course its costlier- and the 30 ft hull
i would have to add a chine since its flat bottomed and at its present design wouldnt accept the shaft offset for the prop. since my engine is large.

The 45 ft is more boat than i need..but its the most beautiful of designs in my opinion...and I suppose i could live on her. it wont be put into commercial use so im going to reduce some of the scantlings for pleasure use. i could downscale the hull by 10% to reduce some costs.

however If i understand correctly the main strength of a hull comes from the shell so I thought- if people are doing light hulls with no framing then really the framing for the most part is just to mold the hull to shape anyway and i could reduce to a degree a lot of framing- so why couldnt i just use a few frames to form the hull but use larger sheets to plate the hull of a round bilge design?..it would be a hybrid version of origami...im ruling out the single chine hull for now because i am not an NA....

[baeckmo]

Originally Posted by tugboat

........however If i understand correctly the main strength of a hull comes from the shell so I thought.......

That is complete nonsense! Do you really, seriously think a worldwide industry would have missed such a message if there were even the slightest substance in your statement? We spend considerable resources on the balancing of strength versus cost and performance; believe me, there are rational reasons for correct design of internal stiffening!

Even a sandwich design in fact consists of a skin plus stiffening structure. In this case the flange of the backup structure "fills" the entire inner surface, but make no mistake, the stiffening is there to take the forces from water pressure and "overall hull bending and twisting forces"!

[tugboat]

Originally Posted by baeckmo

That is complete nonsense! Do you really, seriously think a worldwide industry would have missed such a message if there were even the slightest substance in your statement? We spend considerable resources on the balancing of strength versus cost and performance; believe me, there are rational reasons for correct design of internal stiffening!

Even a sandwich design in fact consists of a skin plus stiffening structure. In this case the flange of the backup structure "fills" the entire inner surface, but make no mistake, the stiffening is there to take the forces from water pressure and "overall hull bending and twisting forces"!

im so sorry beackmo --your attacks have no bearing on my opinion your method of communication wont work here on me-

but sorry not nonsense--sorry...i assume since you seem to know more than say mr Thomas Colvin- you are an expert? i.e. you have built and plied the waters in hundreds of types of vessels and have built in pro yards etc...

simply ill refer to page 66 chapter 5 of thomas colvins "steel boat building"
i will quote it:
"shell plating is the principle strength member of a steel hull. Indeed in very small vessels, transverse and longitudinal framing may be dispensed with altogether since the shell has rigidity by itself. using a continuous stem keel and stern bar as a means attaching the two sides provides an additional margin of strength and will prevent the vessel from buckling...."larger verssels too could be built in a similar fashion although they would be inordinately heavy..."

well two things i know for certain- - people now do build frameless steel boats and you do not almost certainly have the expertise mr Colvin has in boat building and have written books on the subject which BTW HAS BEEN ACCEPTED BY A WORLDWIDE INDUSTRY AS REFERENCE MATERIAL -unless you are a pro and have built many many vessel in a pro yard(highly unlikely)

you are basically uninformed and uneducated as much as i am when it comes to this method and what constitutes the strength of a hull - btw if your argument was correct there would be no origami boatbuilding....so go argue your moot points with mr Colvin and Brent Swain and others who have used this technique successfully.
i would be willing to listen to any productive advice on building a steel frameless boat since i am here not to debate but to get practical helpful and useful information.
otherwise go join the ranks of Apex1 and others here who really are not here to offer any constructive help...

Originally Posted by tugboat

im so sorry beackmo --your attacks have no bearing on my opinion your method of communication wont work here on me-


otherwise go join the ranks of Apex1 and others here who really are not here to offer any constructive help...

You turn nasty amateur!

The only one here who has really NOTHING o contribute but drivel and dumb assumptions is YOU!

Your understanding of the basic principles of boat design and boatbuilding have yet to be developed, but you make noise like a adult!

By accident I added some positive rep points to your account, I will correct that soon.

[tugboat]

Apex1- I guess your forget the nasty things you said on some of my threads? and for what?? you dont even know me --i can refer you to them?--i should have told you off back then but I thought id see who likes to attack others and who likes to help others...which do you suppose you fit into?...If you have anything constructive that can help me realize my dreams -i would love to hear them --but not staements like - " dont worry guys he is never going to do this" do you remember saying that one on one of my threads apex1?...I prefer to support others in thier ideas and dreams...not put them down. we are really on the same team here--we all are---so why not try to work with each other and not try to be critical-- if you are as good a expert as you say--then you must understand what it was like when you were learning?? would you like it if when you were learning- others trampled on your comments?..i am fully able to defend myself in any argument especailly regarding boats--but i dont want to waste time arguing--life is too short/...now --please tell me what do you think of the 45 ft tug designs? thre army st design? its 45 ft by 12.5 ft by 7 ft 7 inch depth-- it is round biulge--what is your take on building it almost frameless?