Team Philips Catamaran

[steve66]

I am currently studyiny for my degree and am investigating the major failure of the Team Philips catamaran hull. Is there anyone out there who can offer me any help on this area, i.e. possible reasons for the failure such as delamination of the composite material as a result of incorrect storage and processing of the material which is one of the areas I have been investigating.

many thanks steve

[nico]

What are u studying?

marine and composites design

[ClarkT]

From what I've heard, your on the right track with that thesis.

Try contacting the designer in person. You can find Adrian Thompson's address through www.vsvboats.com

I'd also contact the folks at SP who should have a lot of guidance for you, not to mention a good job prospect when you get your degree.

[Morgig]

I would agree that talking to the designer is the good place to start. However I would suggest you look at the big picture and consider the load case, factors of safety, weather conditions in which the vessel failed etc, before focusing in on a particular theory of why Team Phillips hull failed.

[ClarkT]

Originally Posted by Morgig

I would agree that talking to the designer is the good place to start. However I would suggest you look at the big picture and consider the load case, factors of safety, weather conditions in which the vessel failed etc, before focusing in on a particular theory of why Team Phillips hull failed.

Ouch Morgig! It's a 3 hr class, not a dissertation! Give the guy a break. I think there is plenty out there for him to learn and report about in the study of the laminate failure due to QA oversights. It's going to be one general paper with no time for specifics if he tries to build a global model of the failure.

[Morgig]

My mistake, I assumed this was for a dissertation, not a 3 hr class, if that's the case yes you would have to focus in on one area.

[John Perry]

I heard it said that it was at least in part due to expansion of air within the nomex core blowing off the skins, the construction team being previously used to working with foam cores where the air is contained. I would have thought the vacuum bag neg pressure should have been well in excess of the warm air pressure (pv=rt), was the problem during post cure without vacuum?

[Daints_99]

I have spoken the Adrian Thompson about this very subject, and like a lot of things the failure started with the finances, the lack of funding for a project of this nature ment they had to cut corners, you only have to look at the build shed for the project, when using such materials as carbon fiber, ytou dont want to be builing an a dusty cold shed with leaves blowing about, corners have been cut !!! look at the masts and rigging, they were built with stress sensors in them, but what good are they if they arnt wired up and theres no software to monitor them. This is a subject that i feel very strongley about as i belive she was and still could be such a fantastic record breaking boat and would love to see her built again with more funds and then got out and prove all these sinics wrong !!!!

hi guys im 14 and i have been reading the book THe Race and i was wondering if one of u guys would mind giving me a quick explanation of how team philips was able to go faster than the wind i under stand how to sail and all that great stuff but i am totally lost with the idea of sailing faster than the wind ok thanks guys (o and im 14)

[nico]

Nice question, the idea to grasp is the difference between true wind speed and apparent wind speed. The true wind speed is the wind speed u feel at rest. But when the boat is moving towards the wind (say 80°) the wind speed u feel is higher (the boat speed + a component of the true wind speed) = apparent wind speed. It means that u can sail in 10 knots of true wind speed, and have an apparent wind speed (the wind speed that the boat/sails see) higher than 10 knots. Which gives enough forces to the boat to sail faster.
So the boat can sail faster than the true wind speed but not faster than the apparent wind speed.

Hope this helps, and hope my english is not too bad

[Daniel Cohen]

As ive sailed on a fast 76 foot cat at over 30 knots haveing a mast flying around over head at high speed is the most un nerving thing I can imagine .A bad idea tons moving one way and the boat going the other

[SilverWolf]

Hi

The problem with team philips is the design. It was designed by a submarine designer, so it was not built to withstand the immense wave pressures at the surface. You must remember that there are no waves and no winds underwater, just a constant water pressure. the designer allowed for o margin, but not enough. For example, the hulls were designed to withstand 5 tonnes waves, which really is not enough, and without the front beam to transfer the force to the other hull, the hull tips were squeesed together untill the port holl snapped. I do not believe that it was a build problem. if it were, other yachts built by goss would also fall apart, and thankfully they don't

Silviu

[SilverWolf]

Oops! I read the wrong end of the forum. Sorry!

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by Silverwolf

The problem with team philips is the design. It was designed by a submarine designer,

I didn't know Adrian had designed submarines... Aqua Quorum certainly didn't look or behave like one

Steve