Teak Veneer Restoration

[PAR]

Actually Richard, this use to be true. Early formulations of marine epoxy were less forgiving then they are now. Every major brand now has modulus of elasticity and elongation qualities that can be matched to the substrate (wood included). I remember epoxy back in the 60's when Meade and his brother were still playing with ice boats. It wasn't especially user friendly, viscosity was an issue and everyone was using polyester techniques to solve the epoxy problems (so they thinned it to improve viscosity, for example), which of course didn't work.

Fortunately, several, the Gougeon brothers included, began to play with the stuff and by 1980 a fairly refined formulation was established, though not necessarily accepted. Jan took first place in the 1975 DN iceboat World Cup and the very highly loaded plywood boat with spruce reinforcements and spars showed many, what the new formulations could do. Additional boats, engineering marvels of taped seam and epoxy reinforcements like Ollie, Adagio, Golden Dazy, Accolade, Hotflash, Adrenalin, Rough Wave, Splinter and who could forget Slingshot, the list is long and proved the theories where more then just speculation. In fact, most of these boats are still in service and still competitive. One in particular was finished bright and stared on the cover of their first book on boat construction. This boat is still in service and still has a brightly finished molded hull, 35 years later. It also hasn't a metal fastener aboard the hull.

There's no debate, the winners of way too many races and the builders of way too many custom yachts, some that are now over 40 years old attest to the durability and longevity of the material. Adagio was built in 1970, likely the very first developed plywood, fully encapsulated, taped seam, no metal fasteners boat. It instantly started kicking butt and still does, 40 years latter, recently finishing first and first to finish in the Chicago-to-Mackinac 1998 and 2000 respectively, then again first to finish in 2002 and in 2006 and a Reick Trophy in 2008.

This is what I mean about being current Petros. These boats are antiques by modern standards, though well sailed can still hold their own, because they're light, strong and well engineered. We could still be using vacuum tubes or solid state circuitry, but frankly there have been advancements or what I prefer engineering evolution. You can keep up or watch the parade go by, it's up to you.

Originally Posted by PAR

Actually Richard, this use to be true. Early formulations of marine epoxy were less forgiving then they are now. .

It used to be true, yes, long ago.

I thought we are talking about a restoration to be done today.

BTW
It was Golden Dazy which made me think about, and finally do, wood epoxy building in 1975.

[PAR]

You're old Richard, though I remember Golden Dazy too.

My point with early formulations and then general opinions of epoxy, where that without a constant review of your thought processes, you'll stagnate into a world of former truisms, without a grasp on the current realities of the industry. Which I'm guessing is where Petros is firmly entrenched. His opinions once where main stream, but now are a couple of decades old and out of touch.

For example if the medical industry didn't constantly revise it's way of looking and doing things, we'd still be using cat gut for sutures and organ transplants are just in science fiction novels. Engineering, particularly material engineering is a continuously changing/evolving set of industries.

The same example could be made of several products or materials. Look at acrylic (latex) paints. They've had a lousy reputation for gloss retention, durability, hardness, solvent resistance, etc. For decades it was thought of as the lowest paint grade you can employ. Not so any more. The latest generations of acrylic paints are tougher, have more gloss retention, are more durable and are harder then the very alkyds, that used to be touted as the "better" product to buy. Of course there are plenty of die hards that still think acrylics are the redheaded step children of the paint choices, but they're wrong and behind the curve in "keeping up" with product, material and industry advances. This was my point.

[captdan]

Pics - https://sites.google.com/site/hatteras42c/home

Any thoughts on making the veneer more appealing? I do like the epoxy / varnish (captain's) technique. Used it on sun bleached 40 year old teak after a light sanding and it looks fantastic. It is very time consuming tho. Anyone ever try epoxy / awl-clear? I would love to update interior to a shiny, hard and easy to clean surface (think new viking interior).

[mydauphin]

Jikes, you guys make me want to catch an epoxy allergy...Seriously how about bonding teak strips to an epoxy deck or like a wall, anything I should do to teak.

Originally Posted by captdan

Anyone ever try epoxy / awl-clear? I would love to update interior to a shiny, hard and easy to clean surface

The method you ask for is the common one in high quality cabinet production. (I better not think Viking interior)
Though it must not be Awlgrip, there are many 2k PUR varnishes with similar properties.

Your link does not work for me btw.

Regards
Richard

Capt.Dan, AwlClear over epoxy works quite well and on an interior it will last forever. HOWEVER! compared to varnish, it looks very plastic! You might even mistake it for Formica. So you might want to do a sample before proceeding to see if you can live with it.

[PAR]

Clear LPU's need to be tinted if you want a varnish look. In fact most single part polyurethanes need some tint as well. Other wise they will look plastic like.

I see no advantage to epoxying everything. Much Like Petros, I've found that people are over epoxying things. The interior furniture of a yacht doesn't need epoxy encapsulation, when a reasonable varnish or spar urethane will do just fine. I do think some locations scream for epoxy encapsulation such as port and hatch panels, but if you don't "need" it, encapsulation is just an added expense for the most part. Don't get me wrong, encapsulation will save the part, usually, but if you don't have it in the budget, they only use goo where you need to.

Again, fully concur. As stated several times, Ep is quite often overkill.

On most of my boats though, cabinetry is a structural part and we therefore encapsulate each and all and everything.

[PAR]

most of my boats though, cabinetry is a structural part and we therefore encapsulate

Ah, the luxury of new construction . . .

Originally Posted by PAR

Ah, the luxury of new construction . . .

Well, as you know, thats how we share the burden here Paul.

One gains knowledge in restoration, the other income in building new.

[missinginaction]

I won't join the epoxy debate because for me it's already been shown superior. But, petros did make a good point that might have been lost in the ensuing discussion.

Ventilation.

On 9/7 petros mentioned condensation (or sweat) being a problem. He was thinking that a leak might actually be condensation, especially when metal (aluminum?) frames are set into a wooden cabin. I think that this is a very important point. I saw it in my boat (pre restoration) and lot's of others.

I'm running two fans in the cabin connected to a timer that I run for 4 hours twice a day in the yard. I noticed that lots of boats smell really musty and are visibly moldy during the winter, when they are closed up. The last few years my fans really made a difference in keeping my boat interior cleaner and fresher smelling. Virtually no mold also makes cleaning easier.

For me condensation is a really important issue that deserves much more attention than it usually gets. I wonder how many cabins start to rot from the inside due to this problem?

Have a great day gentleman and please stop for a moment to remember all the innocent lives lost 9 years ago today.

MIA

[PAR]

All boats rot from the inside MIA. If it isn't sweet water leaking into the boat from outside it's condensation collecting inside.

Ventilation is of the key ingredients of good care, regardless of hull type of if epoxy is employed.

[captdan]

I tend to agree with PAR about epoxies strength and durability (inside), however the darkening is an issue. These hatt interiors are already super dark and the low vis epoxy resin i get (us composites in west palm beach) really darkens wood. Anyone ever use Bristol finish? Veneer panel replacement is starting to sound like the way to go...

[PAR]

Bristol is a great two part polyurethane finish. It can be difficult to get a "handle" on in warm climates like ours, but once you do, you'll love the results.