subsitute fit out materials

[gonzo]

I don't really understand the question. How can you substitute plexiglass on a window for plywood or any other opaque material. Likewise, you wouldn't make a bulkhead out of plexiglass. Each application needs a different material.

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by Steve W

Oh,do any of you guys know if anyone is producing a BS1088 panel out of Paulownia?
Steve.

Some years ago I got a small sample of Pawlonia "sheet" - it was sold in the same sheet dimensions as plywood, and made up of finger-jointed small width planks.

It was used a lot for the interior of motorhomes, as it wouldnt rot from leaky shower enclosures.

Since then, the Pawlonia suppier scene in Australia has changed a lot, so maybe it isnt so easily found.

It might be a useful product in your quest.

[PAR]

In the USA, the plywood rating system is voluntary and frankly all over the place, unless your order is large enough to want firing up a production run. In these instances you can get any quality you desire and at about the same pricing as imported BS-1088 from the few reliable suppliers.

I've had fortune to get custom run USA material and it rivals any BS-1088 sheet I've seen, when the quality demanded this type of sheet. I think Douglas fir cores with a desirable outer veneer would be nice or maybe Paulownia, but you'd need to have a fairly healthy demand to get a plant to make up some custom panels.

It's all about the market, which in this country is quite small in regard to marine grade sheet goods. In fact, the US plants, producing what seems to be the worst stuff in the world, are just answering the supplier's demands. These same manufactures consider marine grade sheets "specialty" stock and have to setup for the "special" production runs. If you contact the manufactures and arrange for a special run, you can get huge discounts and panel construction and quality to your specifications. Of course, this means you'll be taking possession of a lot of well made sheets too, which you can horde or sell off at the same rates as everyone else in retail.

In this economy, you could get great pricing on quantity custom panel orders. I wouldn't be surprised if they do it for just over cost, just to keep a shift working a little longer. Naturally, you'll need to have the resources to take on such an enterprise, but the available is there, the pricing is there and the industry is primed for making deals.

[Steve W]

25 or so years ago we had a custom run of ply made to our specs by a large pacific northwest mill for stitch and glue kits we were making, i dont remeber the actual qty but it ammounted to a whole semi trailer load and when it showed up we never even unloaded it,they had completly ignored our spec and they were full of voids.The second batch was fine but i will never trust the bastards again,the default position is crap. I have heard rumors of good quality fir marine ply but.....
I dont think even the Chinese could possibly match us for crap plywood.
Steve.

[PAR]

Sorry about your rotten quality control system, but it sounds like the "bad run" made so many years back was a mis-communication of some sort and you only have one to blame for this. They know the difference between a quality sheet and a CDX and would be happy to have delivered it on the first truck load.

I'll also add that you've been fortunate to not have taken a load or two of supposedly BS-1088 stock (from China) at what seemed a great price, just to find it delaminated at the mentioning of moisture in the air. In fact, there's been a rash of this stuff for a number of years now, so we don't have a head lock on cheap panel construction.

Try "SommerfelD unD Thiele" or go for my ply (3 to 12 times the average price), when a boatbuilDing quality is required.

The stamps are not worth the ink in the US. All crap. Really, all! Even the so named marine ply from Bruynzeel and other good revommended suppliers cannot stand the basic indoor test in Germany.

[peter radclyffe]

thanks Richard

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Steve W

25 or so years ago we had a custom run of ply made to our specs by a large pacific northwest mill for stitch and glue kits we were making, i dont remeber the actual qty but it ammounted to a whole semi trailer load..

In the 70's we ordered custom ply for an airplane (Wolf experimental) and local mil was happy to deliver our ~13 sheet order. Didn't need a trailer...

[Herman]

I ordered my plywood from a couple of companies in NL, Rozendael and Lambri, at the time.

They both made me a production run of 2 (!!) sheets with some specific veneer requirements, at very, very reasonable cost. Never had quality issues with these sheets. (in harsh environment, 1 example even got used on a boat without any protection on the teak outer layer of veneer)

[Steve W]

Par, there was definatly "mis comunication of some sort".They couldnt read. We supplied written specifications which included of course, ZERO f#@^%g voids, which is of course why they took the crap back and built us decent stuff to replace it for no charge. After we used that up we went back to imported.
Teddy, ive ordered small runs in the distant past also when ive needed a not available face veneer species and was willing to pay extra for it but in this case we needed the quantity so the cost saving of a custom run made sense.
I completely agree with Apexs assesment of US ply until proven otherwise.There are a lot of instances where i would be totally happy with a douglas fir panel IF it was built to BS1088.I like douglas fir.
Steve.

[PAR]

I've experienced all the good and bad things of US manufactured panels, but can't lump the whole industry into the untrustworthy column on a few experiences, of which you can have with any manufacture, regardless of location.

I've seen exceptional stuff with the 1-91 stamp on it as well as pure crap, but I've also seen perfect panels by the truck load. Generally, I don't employ Douglas fir panels in anything but internal applications. Not because they aren't good panels, but because of the finishing issues. Of course, if the use for the panel will also require a heavy sheathing, then Douglas fir is a great choice, but you have to buy the good stuff. Anyone buying big box stock, should have their head examined, because none of this stuff is marine rated.

[Steve W]

Unfortunatly i have yet to experience the good things in a US manufactured panel hence my opinion,conversly i have never,i repeat,never been disapointed with a shipment of BS1088 stamped plywood regardless of where it was manufactured hence my comfort with the rating system. I should point out this is just my opinion which is no better or worse than the opinion of others on the forum. My requirements are not as stringent as Richards apparently,in a structural panel i just want A-A faces, no crapwood core material,use the same species as the face veneers, NO voids, no missaligned overlaps in the core veneers, approximatly equal thickness veneers, and a truly waterproof glueline.This is all most of us need and BS1088 delivers without problem. I would be very happy with a nice US made, say, I/4" 5 ply Doug Fir to BS1088 for the type of work where i currently use imported Merranti,so if anyone can lead me to such a product i woulds love to test some samples. BTW,our local Big Box sells what they call Marine plywood, it just looks like MDO without the O to me, people blindly use it to replace the rotted out decking on their pontoon boats.
Steve.