steel hull protection paints epoxy ?

[tugboat]

Hi--i plan on using epoxy with a black pigment thickened slightly with talc to prep and paint my hull.\\\


my plan at this point is to sand off the mill scale using flapper disks or a large industrial sander-then oiling it with some standard oil until its weld time--clean off the plate then weld up- and coat with the above.

I did experiments with this and it worked great- in fact i did a test panel using simple polyester resin un thickened and it bonded to the steel with incredible results-- of course i would only use epoxy for the real deal, but the only issue i saw with poly was it was brittle and might crack the poly if hit hard..of course anything can be ground off by running up against something hard and course...but it really seemed to work well--
my question is though--what about simple exterior paint or tremclad or rustoleum?..are there cheaper alternatives than epoxy??.i know its only about 300.00 to paint the hull in epoxy(using 5 gallons for 1100 sq ft. mixed with pigment) inside and out but what other alternatives are there to epoxy?
i don't know where to get coal tar here..?.. could i use some kind of black boiler paint? what r the cheaper alternatives? there has to be some...since not all steel boats i've seen have used epoxies...wonder what they used...is red primer expensive?

[philSweet]

I don't like the idea of adding talc. If you want to thicken the paint, use fulminated silica. But usually, you need to thin more that thicken.

[tugboat]

so i know cab-o-sil could work for overheador vertical?

[mydauphin]

Talc is ok to add to epoxy if you don't use to much, but why? It is better to apply many thins coats. And it is better to us marine epoxy paints meant for this than you inventing you own chemistry.

[tugboat]

Originally Posted by mydauphin

Talc is ok to add to epoxy if you don't use to much, but why? It is better to apply many thins coats. And it is better to us marine epoxy paints meant for this than you inventing you own chemistry.

can those paints take the abuse of anchors and banging against barges and other such problematic impacts??.just wondering...I would really like to know what the tug companies use--i do know its not expensive whatever it is...they use soem type of primer and then a paint...

Ill try applying many coats..thanks...good advice

as for inventing chemistry- i dont think its much different than epoxy paint -it is after all epoxy with a pigment--but maybe epoxy paint has other things in it that help adhere to the steel better??..any advice on this is great - i know really nothing on the coatings..but i do know i wont pay an arm and a leg when i can use epoxy...i'll read up on them in the books i have but essentially there is almost nothing on the net...

[Stumble]

Two part epoxy paints are too my knowledge the most durable type of paint available.

[tugboat]

Originally Posted by Stumble

Two part epoxy paints are too my knowledge the most durable type of paint available.

Great-- now i just gotta find a dealer around here--any chance you would know who might sell them??...noahs hsells epifane but not sure if thats a a two part...

one thought i had was grainger sells a coal tar epoxy- its two parts and needs no primer...its a bit more expensive but it will do the exterior for around 500.00 or 600.00

I definitely plan on taking the scale off the metal prior to fabrication--this months projects are- building a gantry and offloading the steel needed for the topsides...then i can start to sand them down get all the scale off and oil the plate....

[Stumble]

Take a look at http://www.awlgrip.com/support-and-a...ld-rolled.aspx there are hundreds if not thousands of places to buy their stuff on the Internet.

[michael pierzga]

The alwgrip system works...the International system works...but they are expensive. If you are building a workboat use a workboats paint system.

What system...good question. You must talk with a local commercial paint vendor and describe your needs. names like Ameron, Jotun

http://ppgamercoatus.ppgpmc.com/

http://www.jotun.com/

[pdwiley]

Originally Posted by tugboat

Hi--i plan on using epoxy with a black pigment thickened slightly with talc to prep and paint my hull.\\\


my plan at this point is to sand off the mill scale using flapper disks or a large industrial sander-then oiling it with some standard oil until its weld time--clean off the plate then weld up- and coat with the above.

I did experiments with this and it worked great- in fact i did a test panel using simple polyester resin un thickened and it bonded to the steel with incredible results-- of course i would only use epoxy for the real deal, but the only issue i saw with poly was it was brittle and might crack the poly if hit hard..of course anything can be ground off by running up against something hard and course...but it really seemed to work well--
my question is though--what about simple exterior paint or tremclad or rustoleum?..are there cheaper alternatives than epoxy??.i know its only about 300.00 to paint the hull in epoxy(using 5 gallons for 1100 sq ft. mixed with pigment) inside and out but what other alternatives are there to epoxy?
i don't know where to get coal tar here..?.. could i use some kind of black boiler paint? what r the cheaper alternatives? there has to be some...since not all steel boats i've seen have used epoxies...wonder what they used...is red primer expensive?

Just bloody well use Jotun 605 or the equivalent in some other brand and stop screwing about. For the amount of possible savings compared with the aggravation involved in repainting if your dodgy sheap-arse alternative doesn't work, JUST USE DECENT MARINE EPOXY PAINT AND MOVE ON!!!!!

FWIW our icebreaker was done using a Hempel epoxy paint and I defy you to find ANY marine application more severe than ice breaking.

You are wasting your time with total trivia simply to avoid actually DOING anything. Go and build your boat. I'll be fascinated to see how the flap wheel approach to mill scale removal goes, too. You'll be the first person to find a better, faster and cheaper way than sand blasting. You hope.....

PDW

[Landlubber]

....do it once and dp it right...sandblast to SA2 1/2...whitemetal.....or forget it.

[tugboat]

Originally Posted by pdwiley

Just bloody well use Jotun 605 or the equivalent in some other brand and stop screwing about. For the amount of possible savings compared with the aggravation involved in repainting if your dodgy sheap-arse alternative doesn't work, JUST USE DECENT MARINE EPOXY PAINT AND MOVE ON!!!!!

FWIW our icebreaker was done using a Hempel epoxy paint and I defy you to find ANY marine application more severe than ice breaking.

You are wasting your time with total trivia simply to avoid actually DOING anything. Go and build your boat. I'll be fascinated to see how the flap wheel approach to mill scale removal goes, too. You'll be the first person to find a better, faster and cheaper way than sand blasting. You hope.....

PDW

Pdw-what dodgy alternative r you talking about?--i have no idea what your refering to...


I dont plan on breaking ice.
but like i said the flapper disk removed the scale to near white or white metal in about 30 seconds per ft. costs about 200.00 to do the whole 20 sheets(i get a discount on flapper disks in bulk) you say your scientist--- go try it ....i dare YOU to prove to me that wont work!!


go read this post--it IS about finding SUITABLE coatings- the reason im here asking is BECAUSE I DONT HAVE A CLUE AS TO WHAT THOSE COATINGS PEOPLE HAVE SUGGESTED ARE...hence i wouldnt be here now would i?


further- what your personal opinion is on my methods- keep it the f.u.c.k. to yourself -not interested in hearing what you think of them--its not your concern.
i dont give a flying f.u.c.k. if you agree with my "sheep arsed methods or not" it wont change a thing for me...so why bother?




thanks----i got your post-and the info...now f.u.c.k. off unless you can speak to me with some respect and can stop trying to undermine my character by calling my methods "sheep arsed" etc...


otherwise this is how you will be recieved and i doubt we want this on these forums...I for one dont need this ****-
a simple suggestion- without your iditotic judgements would have been more well recieved by myself... others here seem to be capable of it why not you? give out crap--youll get it back from me...if this is how you want to communicate fine by me im just as good at it as you...

i think ive made my point

[tugboat]

Originally Posted by Landlubber

....do it once and dp it right...sandblast to SA2 1/2...whitemetal.....or forget it.

i agree-about white metal but respectfully disagree about sandblasting it

-if the metal is ground down to white-using my proposed way i cannot se how it could fail to work..besides many people have built steel boats or repaired them where sandblasting wasnt an alternative due to the area restrictions such as marinas or localtiy laws etc i was reading about this in Colvins book...

they magaed ok--so why wouldnt it work??--the people here have mentionedthings such as the J 505--ive never heard of it--maybe we dont have these coating here in north america because in my searches they dont show up?...there is a product called bottom cote. it is recommended for below the waterline use on commercial vessels...have a look--http://www.noahsboatbuilding.com/searchresult.asp

why not use red oxide primer then black spray paint enamel-flat black above the waterline? and coal tar epoxy below?? then just an exterior paint or spray paint the inside?--also my plate will be done prior to weld up...i might coat the plate with oil..then when im ready then dry it off and coat it--thoughts on this?

[michael pierzga]

YIKES TUGBOAT !!


CHILL !! and Put that drill down before you hurt somebody ...................

[mydauphin]

Epoxy paints have uv protection to start with, that alone makes them better using 100% epoxy with talc. Not all Epoxies are built the same many are better than others. You can strengthen epoxies with aluminum powder.