Restoring marine ply Yacht. Materials?? Please Help!

Discussion in 'Materials' started by hansp77, Mar 29, 2006.

  1. hansp77
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: Melbourne Australia

    hansp77

    I have ried this post unsuccessfully (no reply) in another forum, so I will try again here.
    If the information that I am asking for already exists in another thread, then please if you have the time, direct me to it.

    So here is the story.

    After looking for months for my first yacht, I have just bought a 30ft (Herrod designed?) marine ply yacht (named Altair) with a Stuart Turner 8hp inboard and fixed keel.
    I was not intending to get a wooden boat, for the Rot issues, but this one was just too good, at a great price, with absolutly everything (including 10 sails) and ready to sail. Someone had bought it for the mooring it was on, In sandringham (Melbourne Australia), and wanted to quickley sell it to move in their power boat.
    A bit of history (for those interested), the previous owner (before the guy who bought it for the mooring) was around 80 years old and has owned and raced it for around the last 40 years, regularly sailing it to Tasmania and back. This guy loved his boat, and treated it very well but had just got too old to keep on sailing.

    Here come the questions..
    The hull is absolutly fine, no rot, no soft spots, and has just been antifouled.
    There are however a couple of softish spots (not too bad) on the roof of the cabin, and the biggest problem, a fare few leaks in some cracking seals and joints, as well as just some cracks in the wood. There was about an inch of fresh water in the bottom, which I have drained out, and I want to fix the leaking roof ASAP.

    This weekend, while I still have it on the jetty, I want to dig and grind out the damaged seals and joints where it is leaking and fill/bog it up- then peel/scape and sand the whole deck and repaint. The question is, what with? I have had suggested to me polyfiller (which seems ludicrous), or fiberglass. And the paint, Dulux weathershield?
    The deck has been painted midnight blue, which could explain to some degree the cracking. I will repaint it white.

    Also, another issue is that inside the cabin, a lot of the cabin has been painted, and is now peeling off. The wood is fine, but through reading other threads, some people have said that the inside of the hull and structure should not be painted to allow the wood to breath. considering that it has survived this long (assumingly painted) should I just repaint inside, or should I try to bring it back to wood?

    If anyone has some valuable advice for me I would be most gratefull.

    Thanks, Hans.
     
  2. CapKos
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    CapKos Junior Member

    Hi,
    I am not professional and can tell you only from my personal experience. I have an 42 years old plywood boat. I painted the deck with 4 layers of primer, sanding lightly with 120 grid paper between layers, then put 2 layers polyurethane paint. Before painting I fill all voids, cracks and joints with 2 component epoxy putty. Epoxy is really the best for that, don’t use polyester or any other putty. You can put glass and epoxy on the deck, but should consider the increasing weigh. I personally will prefer to keep the original layout. However check carefully for rot and cut and replace if any. Epoxy again will help a lot for this cosmetics changes. I have no paint in the inside, but varnished in some parts. I don’t think painting will be a problem, anyway, do what you like inside.

    All the best,
    CapKos
     
  3. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    can I ask? was the inside varnished or coated?and does the hull have glass on it? thanks,,,,longliner
     
  4. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    refering to the inside being painted, this is a long ongoin question amongst boat owners and builders, some say that if you seal the wood it will kill it others say no ,,,my boat is 25yrs old ,but it was keeped in a barn , no uv light ,no weather she was glassed outside and laminated inside ,everthing looks really good, hence my question .
     
  5. CapKos
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    CapKos Junior Member

    The boat is not glassed. Part of the inside is varnished part is bare wood. If Your boat is epoxy plywood construction and is fiberglassed she will be completely different.
     
  6. hansp77
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: Melbourne Australia

    hansp77

    Hello,
    Thank you CapKos, and thank you Longliner45 for your replies, (my first..)
    CapKos I take note of the 2 component Epoxy, regarding the paint, how has it held up?
    Longliner45, the inside of the hull, on the marine ply and the stringers(??) has been painted. Quite a thin white paint that is flaking in a couple of places, especially the struts on the top of the cabin. The Timber throughout the cabin has been varnished, including the mast. Underneath the floor, the hull and the transom is raw wood. The hull has not been glassed. The deck has many many layers of paint, which in a couple of places is rising.
    Longliner, regarding your boat and its good condition (with glassing and lamination), my boat (other than as mentioned a couple of spots on the cabin) seems to be in excellent condition as well. This is after at least forty years of regular ocean sailing and races.
    Longliner, would you agree with CapKos, about the paint and the epoxy?

    for interest I shall try to post a couple of pictures.

    Tell me what you think.
    P.s. I am definatly going to repaint that awefull blue colour of the hull.
    hans.
     

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  7. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    nice boat .I like it. Im going to use 2 part epoxy on mine ,who builds your boat I like low to the water profile ,good old school design.
     
  8. CapKos
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    CapKos Junior Member

    Hi hansp77,
    Mono component paint stick excellent over epoxy, but not the contrary. The basic rule is always put first 2 component product (over bare wood) and then mono component if any. Your boat looks similar to mine (beautiful). It is nice to see such a boat in good condition since many people mistakenly assume that such kind of boats are very difficult to maintain and are not long-lived.
    If you repaint the hull, however you should consider the compatibility of the new paint. Ask the previous owner and/or local boat builders. The best is however to remove completely the old paint and peel to bare wood.

    Good luck,
    CapKos
     
  9. hansp77
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    hansp77

    My boat was apparently designed by an 'E' or 'C Herrod'.
    i have tried to research this name but have come up with nothing.
    As I bought 'Altair' off someone who bought if for the mooring, I have not been able to meet the original 80 year old owner who is to thanked for keeping her in such good condition.
    Once my bank cheque clears, on monday or tuesday, the guy I bought it from is going to give me the original owners details. Then I will be able to find out a lot more about it, the materials used, and the real history. As somone from a neighboring boat told me that the old guy was terribly worried that someone was going to buy the boat to wreck it, and desperatly wanted it to go to a good loving home- i assume he will be happy to tell me all he can.

    Thanks again Longliner45 and CapKos, I will be sure to fill in the details as they come to light, and will probably have a few more questions.

    You say your boats are similar, do you have any photos?
    I would be interested to see.
    Hans..
     
  10. Sander Rave
    Joined: May 2005
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    Sander Rave Senior Member

    Hi Hans,

    I have a plywood boat, and repairing it at this moment. I found some champignons if anybody likes gourmet stuf? Thanks to the previous owner, he kept the boat covered for a whole year, here you have your greenhouse :-(

    Damage is under contol and I agree with the guys above in maintenance. Beware for the chhamignon though, if you find one and you can take out the whole piece of wood, do so. the "miscileen" or how how you may call the roots of a mushroom may grow a long way through the wood. (but this is all my problem, not yours)
    I had the same problem with the inside of my boat regarding the paint. I'm a fan of oil based paints for the inside of the boat. it's not that sleek as a PUpaint or Alkied based paint, but the oil pregs the wood and resists the water.

    I used it on different boats for a long time. Even open boats that had to resist Dutch weather whole year and in many cases had a reasonable load of bilge water, bare sunlight and frost without anything else than some layers of natural oil based paint.
    Regards,

    Sander
     
  11. hansp77
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    hansp77

    Hello Sander,
    could you describe what these champignons look like.
    I have found one little spot under one peice of the decking that looks a little fungal. It is a patch about the size of an orange. The wood is still hard all the way through, except for the very outer 1-2mm of wood wich is a bit shredded and peeling, and looking a bit mildewy and fluffy. Not wanting to cut out this bit just yet, I was going to try to sand/cut it back untill pure wood and then epoxy fill.
    The reason for this is that it will not be the esiest peice to replace, it is not exactly an integral peice, and I really would like to get her maiden voyage soon, rather than start tearing up wood.
    I was hoping to do this sort of stuff next year when I slip her for the first time. She has just been slilpped and antifouled one month ago by the previous ownerer.

    what do you think?
     
  12. Sander Rave
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    Sander Rave Senior Member

    I'll have a look if I can find a picture of it to send to you. Can you send me a picture of yours? A picture says more than a thousand words...
    Epoxy is in my opinion the only right filler and without further information your approach seems a sound one.
     
  13. hansp77
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: Melbourne Australia

    hansp77

    Hello Sander,
    I have photos of the boat, but not of the rotten spot.
    I am going down this weekend to either do the plan as said before, strip, fill and paint,
    Or, as I am tossing up,
    go down and first rip out a bit of wood and replace and then follow as with the first plan.
    I can't really decide.
    Yesterday when I went down to the boat again I found a couple more softish spots. Mostly not rot, but definately worth replacing in an ideal world.
    My dillema is whether to do a partial wood replacement job now, or to wait till the next slip and do a major one....
    My concern if I wait is that whatever rot I know is there, and whatever rot I don't know is there, will spread and cause further problems.
    Decisions decisions.

    At least in the mean time I have covered the roof leaks with tarps, drained and dried the bilges and sprinkled a little salt in the bottom, to stop any fresh water problems..

    shall keep informed..
    hans.
     
  14. Sander Rave
    Joined: May 2005
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    Location: Amsterdam; The Netherlands

    Sander Rave Senior Member

    types of fungus

    A friend of mine is an architect and works often with old houses. She pointed me to a publication about our creepy little organismus and how to terminate them. I still have to study it, as I just downloaded the publication. Nevertheless I attached it.

    Too bad it's only in Dutch, but maybe you find something you recognise and I'll try to find the cure. If it ain't too bad, I'd say enjoy life and restore next year when you plan the next slip. Doing it one step at a time.

    What about the salt part? That's one I didn't know yet?!
     

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  15. hansp77
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: Melbourne Australia

    hansp77

    Hey sander,

    The salt trick is something that I read about on this forum.
    You see salt water in the bottom of a boat, while not good, is much better than fresh water. Salt inhibits all sorts of fungal growth and other troublesome organisms, and to a certain extent preserves wood. With my boat, when I purchased, there was about three inches of fresh water that had come in from the cracks in the cabin roof. The fresh water was good to find in one respect, that I could be relatively sure that the hull was not leaking. Having drained this and tarped what I can, the salt is merely a precaution for the leaks I haven't found yet.

    I can however imaging trying to explain this far down the track to the next buyer who dips his finger in and tastes....
    "honestly, I swear, the hull is not leaking, thats just a bottle of water I spilt, and it has mixed with the salt I sprinkled in..."
    I wonder if I would have believed that story?

    I think I am leaning towards your advice.
    I like that whole enjoy life bit..
    After all I did buy a boat to actually sail, not to pull to peices. At least not yet.

    My next problem is finding a decent and cheap marine supply store.
    I need that epoxy, and some paint.
    Tommorrow I shall recieve the number of the old guy who used to own it, and then I can pick his brains on what has already been used..
    Hans.
     
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