Possibility of using new bamboo laminate.

Discussion in 'Materials' started by hansp77, Mar 31, 2006.

  1. hansp77
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: Melbourne Australia

    hansp77

    Hello Nero,
    what bamboo product are you planning to use?
    I have been looking for a decent ply, for the possibility of doing a complete cabin and deck replacement next year for my recently purchased marine ply 30 footer.
    The majority of what I can find, seems to be of that 'core' stuff, with a laminate on the outside (way too thick and unnescessary).
    Have you seen any proper traditional ply structure, with the multi layered grain at right angles?
    From various specs that I have discovered, it seems that aside from the end grain, the wood, even untreated is virtually inpenetrable, even by fine oils.
    There is a lot of talk about the use of a typical ply available within China, for constructiona and the like, but not much mention of it in the suppliers this side of the divide.
    As far as China is concerned, there is also talk of a lot of varying qualities, with outdated production methods using ill suited old equipment.
    I wonder if there is anyone making top grade bamboo ply yet? Hopefully even with marine usage intented?

    I would be very interested in the possibility of making an entire hull (and if the hull- then entire boat) out of these products. The strength, the flex, and the sheer water resiliance- so long as the end grain is protected, with the beauty and feel of a wooden boat could be very promising.

    What are your plans for this material?

    Do you think a hull would be better built by a bamboo ply? or maybe a composite of these strips, possibly formed around or within a mould.

    The information from the surboard manufacture is that after wrapping what I assume are these strips around a 'closed-cell styrene core' and epoxying, it is then baked. The result for a surfboard is that it is much more springier and responsive.
    they say this.....

    "McWilliams said the boards had better flotation and the bamboo allowed a ``push-flex'' out of turns, similar to snow skiing.

    ``You definitely notice it. That's what makes the board so lively,'' he said. ``Everyone who has ridden one, including Sunny, said they could feel it. It almost jumps out of the water. It's very quick out of turn, it goes really fast. It gives you that extra push.''


    Do you think a mast could be constructed in this manner?
    I could picture some sort of similar core as this surfboard, something that wold survive repeated flexing, and then two or more layers of epoxied bamboo strip sheathing, one layer going around the mast, the other going from top to bottom.
    This would stop pressure from both snapping the mast, or snap-splitting it down the middle with the grain.
    With this beefed up surfboard type manufacture, this sort of mast could be incredibly strong, light, and the bonus, flexy and springy?
    It could also, like the surfboard, float.

    Anyone care to continue or add to this line???
    Hans.
     
  2. hansp77
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: Melbourne Australia

    hansp77

    As a quick after thought,
    might one be able to construct and bake a somthing along the lines of a foam core ply, just like this surfboard manufacture- but much thinner, ie, the thickness for a hull? Possibly even crosshached, for double strength like I suggested for the Mast?
    Hans.
     
  3. nero
    Joined: Aug 2003
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    Location: Marseille, France / Illinois, US

    nero Senior Member

    What I have not been able to find is a cheap core material. Wood prices are out of line in the US. WRC sells for more than walnut and cherry. This is what happens when marketing gets involved.

    So maybe bamboo can be an inexpensive core material? It wood solve many of the problem with todays lumber. Which has loose growth rings, poor quality, wavy grain, and too many middlemen raising the price.

    I am looking at Laminated Bamboo Lumber. I did a short bit of google and found this
    http://www.deren.cc/Laminated Bamboo Lumber.htm
    Dead straight grain, rot resistant, stiff and impact resistant. But will epoxy stick to it? Will it bend to forms for strip planking a hull?

    For a mast it seems excellent. This with a carbonfiber sheathing might give a super light weight and strong mast and boom for an EZ rig. I also have some spars for my cat that bamboo would strip plank.

    But can I get it here? And at what price. I have emailed the above link. One of their addresses bounced. Still waiting for a responce on the other email.

    Bamboo ply might be interesting also. Since it is dimensionally stable, the laminates would not have to be as thin as other plywoods.

    I like the "green" aspect to bamboo also. It is a grass. Grows fast and little waste in the processing of it into lumber. Unfortunantly, It would be long and slow for an individual to rip, surface and glue up strips.

    Using bamboo as the only fiber? It may be possible, but that is more of a risk than what I would like to take.

    weaving the strips on a mast would be impossible. On a hull it would be like cold molding. Sure it is possible, but it is not a good way to go about making a repairable hull.
     
  4. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    The Biggest Grass in the world would be the Corn.........

    Why the bamboo float even as stripped wood? The structure fiber of the air. The bamboo is usually bend whole to end met end and tie with bamboo lace. Some built like Tom Sayer raft by putting everythin flat and tie but the Vietnamese design bamboo raft and boat are Chinese design or incline. Most of them if need epoxy or other sticky material would turn to Damar.

    In China small raft can be build from goat skin and fill with air, for crossing river?:confused: :confused: :confused:

    Wonder never exist.

    Wellydeckhand
     
  5. kach22i
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Michigan

    kach22i Architect

    It's just a matter of time before there are bamboo hovercraft flying around.:)
     
  6. hansp77
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: Melbourne Australia

    hansp77

    Bamboo laminate seat on my new pushpit. The acid test.

    Yes that is right.
    after all this talk, (but undoubtably not before a lot more) I will be putting a small part of these ideas to the test.

    Tonight after pulling off the old rusted pushpit from the Seahorse (Van De Stadt) that I am restoring, my uncle and I drew up the plans for the new stainless pushpit (to match the stainless pullpit) that will have an overhanging seat on the back.
    The slats of the seat will be made from some of the bamboo laminate that we have. Out there in the weather and the sun, on its future little swing mooring we shall soon see how well it holds up. Relatively risk free at that.
    We have been very tempted to lay a whole deck out of it. We placed a few peices down today to see how it looked, and it would look amazing.
    But, not this time.
    Soon maybe, there will be a picture. (note my optimism- this coming from someone who has today decided to do another thing that was sworn against- pull it out of the water again...)
    maybe..
    Hans.
     
  7. Ari
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Ari Patience s/o Genius

    Hallo Hansp77.. I had known results of using this material raw. Not when it is covered with epoxy or plastics, we have the raw stuff..it is normally used as the pole and flooring material for a type of fish trap that have a hut contructed on it. normally it can survive a few years in very harsh environment, proper maintenances is a must.
     
  8. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    There are around 80 type of bamboo , which u used? I have bamboo thickness wall of 2 inch and as big as my leg....... huge bugger.
     
  9. Ari
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Ari Patience s/o Genius

    Bamboo it usage..

    Welly, Borneo have the biggest bamboo I ever known..normal size Iban Dayak used to cut a hole in the side of that particular bamboo and hide inside it..:) don't know what type exported from China or Taiwan.The variety in Malaysia is very vast.Those used for weaving into a basket normally have a wall thickness of about 1cm, internal diameter is about 5cm, external diameter is about 7cm.The thick one like what U mention are also good for weaving, the only problem is the distance between one knuckle to another is a bit to close..I used that to make 'carbide cannon..'wow..now I do really remember that we used to make cannon out of bamboo trunk..:eek:
     
  10. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    Actually early form of small canon was fire in big rods of bamboo but carry by 3 person and not durable...... by China........ i read something on it when they invent gun powder and used in Romance of the three kingdom war.

    The bamboo in Kalimantan u can put you legs into the hole but no the body..... unless u found something I havent.

    Good Luck,

    Wellydeckhand
     
  11. Ari
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Ari Patience s/o Genius

    Those real big one come are from certain area in Sarawak, but they are not as big as they are used to be. There is no such bamboo in the peninsular, anything at 15cm O/D are considered very big. I used to supply bamboo to Taiwanese industries in the Peninsular - for disposable chopstick. They had all close shop so it is very quiet on the bamboo front..and all the bamboos are dying a natural death..anybody need process raw bamboo?:)
     
  12. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    Here anothe link to Bamboo amterial thread:http://www.bamboodirect.com/ see the marvel of it beside turning into s\chopstick...... grow your own
     
  13. Wellydeckhand

    Wellydeckhand Previous Member

    Ok let see old picture of Sail weaved from bamboo fiber eh? Now ye believed me? The stuff can be make into fiberglass add on to strengthen the structure? Anyone have an idea?,............... Beside Gilly........... he knows almost everything.....................:)

    http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/n_the_other.html
     

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  14. solrac
    Joined: Feb 2006
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    solrac 100% sudaca

    maybe I can enlighten some aspects if you all don't mind,
    here at the south, a variety of bamboo, called "tacuara" has been used for experimental civil construction, as a substitute for steel bars on concrete since the 50s..
    the experimental data surveyed since the last half century gave a strenght coeficient of about 1/10 to steel (flexion & compression)
    the only issues found were, too short adherence to concrete (by means of it's lack od roughness) compared to steel & a bit higher fisuration.
     

  15. longliner45
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Ohio

    longliner45 Senior Member

    maybe boat building has come 360
     
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