Paint - isocyanate alternatives

[Phil Locker]

Our local Health & Safety inspector has taken an unhealthy interest in us, unfortunately.

We're a small custom composite fabrication business that does a lot of rudders, daggerboards, composite tillers, etc

I'm starting to think that for paint systems, it might simply be easier to get away from the isocyanates (we use supplied air respirators, and take all precautions, but still....)

Our usual system is to use an epoxy primer, and above waterline (or overall on foils for drysailed boats) topcoat with a 2 pack polyurethane. Both of these are unfortunately isocyanates.

Any good alternatives out there?

Thanks
Phil

[waikikin]

Hi Phil, there's a bloke in Canberra that posts on the wooden boat forum that uses the water polyu, he's called Wild wassa, don't know if the're isocyanate free but you could check out what he does, I've seen a foil on that site he was doing with it. All the best from Jeff. http://boatcraft.com.au/paints.html

[parker12]

No polyurea spray/polyurethane spray is available without isocynate chemicals.Isocynate helps to protect from chemical corrosion.best of luck

[Phil Locker]

Thanks for that.

I've tried the WR LPU when they first came out, and wasn't terribly impressed.

I'm wondering about the Duratec 614-021 White High Gloss Topcoat... its a polyester, rather than a polyurethane. They claim its quite durable. Anyone got experience with it? Pair it with a Duratec vinylester primer system, and I'd be off the isocyanates. Or is that just wishful thinking?

[marshmat]

Hi Phil,

I pulled up the data sheet on Duratec 614-021 (see http://www.duratec1.com/pdf/604-041.pdf ).... well, it is a polyester, but you're getting away from isocyanates and getting xylene, styrene and methyl ethyl ketone in exchange. You'd still need the supplied air respirators (or, at the very least, good organic vapour cartridges).

Some NIOSH info on the chemicals in question:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/isocyanates/
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/xylene/
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/styrene/

The last time I suggested to an OH&S guy that we wanted to try a xylene-based solvent.... well, let's just say we didn't get our solvent and we ended up spending a lot of quality time with scrapers and sanders.
Some good fume hoods, WHMIS training and well-maintained respirators can go a long way when dealing with nasty chemicals and the associated bureaucrats....

[waikikin]

Phil, I used some Duratech products on a plug a few years ago, they were terrific in the application, I dont know if the white product you've mentioned is similar, but the black high gloss I used came out sweet, I wouldn't think it was that durable as it sanded & buffed up pretty quick, Maybee their gelcoat additive & a wet sand & buff would do the trick.
Marshmat has a good point on the styrene etc, it will attract complaints & comments pretty quick, but to me it smells like money
Regards from Jeff.

[jonr]

UV cured powder coating?

[CDK]

Originally Posted by marshmat

well, it is a polyester, but you're getting away from isocyanates and getting xylene, styrene and methyl ethyl ketone in exchange. You'd still need the supplied air respirators (or, at the very least, good organic vapour cartridges).

Cyanide sounds very dangerous, if you google for isocyanides or isocyanates (same thing) you'll find a lot of b.s. A professor told me long ago (too long to remember the details) that this group should not be treated as one because there are all kinds of substances in the group, from lethal to harmless.
You may have teeth filled with UV-hardened metacrylate, which also contains a di-isocyanate.

The polyester paint containing xylene, mek and possibly also toluene is certainly more toxic because these 3 are confirmed carcinogenics. The styrene is perhaps not quite as dangerous but very upsetting for the respiratory system and can play havoc with your sense of smell for days.

[scotch&water]

What smell ? The wife tells me to take my work coat ect. out side.

[Herman]

Smell? I don't smell anything? Does polyester smell? Only the first couple of hours, perhaps?

Without kidding, CDK is absolutely right, except for 1 thing: his last word is "days" but make that "weeks, months, or possibly years".

I work at a wholesaler of polyester resin, and we USED to store empty IBC containers in our warehouse. (constant styrene smell, although lightly). I still have trouble smelling anything (which helps when changing diapers of my kid...)

To the topic starter: Perhaps acrylic (car) paint is an option. When not submerged for days, it can be an option. I once had one of my racing boats sprayed with that, and it held up better then 2K PU. (more scratch resistant).

[gonzo]

Isocyanates give you premature senility if exposed to regularly. It makes the brain cells age faster. I am probably headed that way.

[Landlubber]

There are polyester paints available for the furniture industry, I have used those in China and they are very fast for decorative gloss finishes.

[gonzo]

Are they UV resistant?

[Ilan Voyager]

Originally Posted by Herman

Smell? I don't smell anything? Does polyester smell? Only the first couple of hours, perhaps?

Without kidding, CDK is absolutely right, except for 1 thing: his last word is "days" but make that "weeks, months, or possibly years".

I work at a wholesaler of polyester resin, and we USED to store empty IBC containers in our warehouse. (constant styrene smell, although lightly). I still have trouble smelling anything (which helps when changing diapers of my kid...)

To the topic starter: Perhaps acrylic (car) paint is an option. When not submerged for days, it can be an option. I once had one of my racing boats sprayed with that, and it held up better then 2K PU. (more scratch resistant).

The styrene of the polyester is a plague...Herman is right: acrylic car paint works nicely. Great advantage it dries fast so it won't take all the dust, insects and other things. With our 30-35 ° Celsius, three coats in the day. Duration is pretty good: 5 to 7 years with 90% humidity and 300 days/year of UV ranging from 10 to 12. Not too bad.

[gonzo]

What is the hardener in acrylic?