opening up the fer-a-lite debate again...

[pdwiley]

Originally Posted by tugboat

I wish i could do a test like that--take a 4' panel and run it into a log at 8 knots--i personally would love to know..fail or not fail..it would be interesting...but like the tugboat master designer Mal low (paraphrasing) says- "if your overstress fiberglass, you reglass it later- over stress steel and you bend it back or reweld it..six of one...?

I basically agree but with 1 really BIG proviso. That you don't rupture the hull.

Read David Lewis' 'Shapes on the Wind'. He bought a ferro boat, had it surveyed etc. It fell off a big wave and the momentum transfer of the mast punched a hole clean through the bottom of the hull. The boat sank. Any substance known to man will fail, it just depends on the load and method.

If you build the hull yourself and pay close attention first to engineering advice WRT reinforcement and second to build quality, it should be fine. Document it thoroughly and keep those records for the future. Have fun doing it regardless because whatever material you use, you'll be at it for a long time.

I have a deep and abiding hate affair with my angle grinders these days.... and let's not talk about sand blasters. Overall, though, I like steel. I don't like epoxy so probably the only other choice (leaving out other metals) would be a conventionally planked timber hull. There's something in the look of a George Buehler 'Archimedes' that calls to me.... perhaps I might build a model.

PDW

[tugboat]

Originally Posted by pdwiley

I basically agree but with 1 really BIG proviso. That you don't rupture the hull.

Read David Lewis' 'Shapes on the Wind'. He bought a ferro boat, had it surveyed etc. It fell off a big wave and the momentum transfer of the mast punched a hole clean through the bottom of the hull. The boat sank. Any substance known to man will fail, it just depends on the load and method.

If you build the hull yourself and pay close attention first to engineering advice WRT reinforcement and second to build quality, it should be fine. Document it thoroughly and keep those records for the future. Have fun doing it regardless because whatever material you use, you'll be at it for a long time.

I have a deep and abiding hate affair with my angle grinders these days.... and let's not talk about sand blasters. Overall, though, I like steel. I don't like epoxy so probably the only other choice (leaving out other metals) would be a conventionally planked timber hull. There's something in the look of a George Buehler 'Archimedes' that calls to me.... perhaps I might build a model.

PDW

I will most surely read that--anything by David Lewis resonates with me...
yes- thats the key--to take pride in doing it--it really becomes a labour of love doesn't it? your boat is really beautiful...so to me youve done a good job...if i had more money --i would go for steel..but at about twice the costs for what i want its not feasible..btw--i did recieve news from my business partner to start on a mutualroject so thats going to happen before the tug build...

its a specific build..possibly in steel..800 sq ft of 5/16th plate rolled...ill talk later about...this changes things ..



I read david lewis's icebird..what a magnificent book. and he also inspired me with his ideas on polynesian wayfaring. a lost art to all but a few people on earth. they could read the sea by listening to it..by the way the water hit the hulls--they could find thier positions..know what was in the vacinity in the water without seeing it..and by taste of the salt water--salinity is greater near the equator. but they progressed further -they actually started using intuition --the masters of this type of navigation which to me is the ONLY pure navigation method- were able o use instinctsto find thier way...instincts us folks have long since lost...

wonderful stuff-but i digress--he chose steel in ice bird i believe because he thought it was the best material. what is the book about that you mention??


Moitessier(another hero of mine) liked steel..but he mentions in the long way that he though his boat could have even gone to 16 guage or 1/16th of an inch hull--I think he was searching for that elusive ultimate material-
aren't we all?)and in his era-lighter meant faster for him. he didnt mention exactly how to go lighter in steel..but he mentions his only regret was making the hull too heavy or something like that...


I bought a set of Beuhlers plans-- the river walker- i have to be honest--i had some questions for him that seemed to stump him slightly-he did his best then he referred me to a forum on his boats...and i think i may have insulted him by accident--i built a boat this summer that was derivative of his riverwalker because it was MY own design and i like to do that-- so i sent him some pics of it stating that I had BASED but not copied his riverwalker idea--i changed everything--the framing -i went longitudinal not athwartships, and i shortened it and put a tugboat wheelhouse on it..i think he mustn't have liked it because he never returned my email..

funny how as soon as our builds are done--we cannot help but start dreaming of the next build...the archimedes-ill look that one up-not familiar with it..
i always tell people--this is my last boat--and then build another one...

[tugboat]

oh yea PDW--wood..ugh ill never build in it again--no way no how--last on my list of materials especially after this years build..

when i built my first steel barge, i thought - "no way never again--gonna go with wood next time" boy did i regret that! my order of preference for a displacement hull--
1.steel
2.FAL
3.ferro
4.papermache
5. leather
6.moosehide
7.composites
8.strip plank
9.tinfoil
10. ply/epoxy/conventional
of course 4 5 and 6 are jokes but you get the idea...

[pdwiley]

Top of my list is cupronickel but I need to win the lottery first.

Sad thing is, some years ago a scrap dealer I know bought some tanks that everyone else thought were stainless. They actually were Monel.

Lewis's book 'Shapes on the Wind' is his autobiography. I have all his books. All of Moitessier's as well.

Tom Colvin commented on steel thickness. Yes 1.5mm is structurally sufficient for most of the size hulls we're talking about. Now try to weld it. Now try to keep it fair.

Tom said that my hull could be 3mm and a lot were. He advised using 4mm which I did (5mm was too heavy). The welding/bending/stiffness of 4mm makes it an absolute joy to work with compared to 3mm. A great deal of the fairness of my plating is due to the nicer working characteristics of the plate rather than any skill on my part.

PDW

Originally Posted by tugboat

oh yea PDW--wood..ugh ill never build in it again--no way no how--last on my list of materials especially after this years build..

when i built my first steel barge, i thought - "no way never again--gonna go with wood next time" boy did i regret that! my order of preference for a displacement hull--
1.steel
2.FAL
3.ferro
4.papermache
5. leather
6.moosehide
7.composites
8.strip plank
9.tinfoil
10. ply/epoxy/conventional
of course 4 5 and 6 are jokes but you get the idea...