Boat Design Forums  |  Boat Design Directory  |  Boat Design Gallery  |  Boat Design Book Store  |  Thanks to Our Site Sponsors

Go Back   Boat Design Forums > Construction > Materials
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Most Recent Posts Gallery Images Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #16  
Old 04-28-2012, 09:55 AM
Leon01323 Leon01323 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Rep: 27 Posts: 95
Location: England
Ah thats some great info thanks. So if they are using that system thats not really something i could do in my workshop at home. Most hi tec piece of kit i own is a vacuum pump.

So in basic terms its still standard matting but they have use almost liquid plastic as the resin then put it in layers in a mould and then in a oven under pressure? or am i way off?

Thanks again
Reply With Quote


  #17  
Old 04-28-2012, 10:42 AM
upchurchmr upchurchmr is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rep: 459 Posts: 1,456
Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA
Leon,

Not quite right. no liquid resin.

The thermoplastic plastic used as resin is stiff and boardy. Go pick up any piece of Nylon for example. The "resin" is formed in thin sheets, like paper.
Stack first resin, then glass, then resin, etc, until you have as many sheets of glass as you want in the finished product.
Cover with a vacuum bag, pull the vacuum, heat to higher than the melting point for a little while, turn off the heat and let it cool.

If you made the laminate flat, then you would reheat it to form it in the shape you want - like the front and back kick to the boards. Thermo plastics can be reheated multiple times without damaging the properties. Or you could have formed to that shape when you first compacted and formed the shape. That seems to be what the board maker does, because they talk about forming a large sheet, then waterjet cutting each individual board out.

Just FYI the thermoplastic my company has developed has a major componenet of PEEK. The injection molder heats it to ~700 degrees before it is forced in the mold. So when you try to make your own laminate you will need an oven that gets somewhere around that temp. The different plastics vary considerably, so if you pick a different resin you might be lots lower. The real trick is to be able to get the resin to push thru the glass cloth and "wet out" all the fiber to make it strong. You probably need an Autoclave which puts 80 - 100PSI pressure on the laminate while it is melted. Sorry I know nothing about those tricks.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-29-2012, 02:10 AM
Herman's Avatar
Herman Herman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rep: 1240 Posts: 1,617
Location: The Netherlands
These are also called "thermoplastic prepregs". A manufacturer is Ten Cate in the Netherlands. the stuff can be processed at high temperature, some 230-250 degrees C.

There is one other solution, which is to infuse Caprolactam into a fabric, and polymerise that into nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-30-2012, 12:23 PM
Leon01323 Leon01323 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Rep: 27 Posts: 95
Location: England
Ah that makes alot more sense to me now. So would need to find an oven which would fit one of these boards in to really make it all work.

As for an autoclave thats not something i have access to. Ive found a company in the UK which provides thes prepregs in rolls and have sent them an email to see if they can give me some more info.

Caprolactam is the bass of nylon isn't it. That sounds even more technical Herman

Thanks again
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-30-2012, 12:45 PM
Herman's Avatar
Herman Herman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rep: 1240 Posts: 1,617
Location: The Netherlands
You would need at least an oven capable of the neccesary temperature, bagging materials that survive the heat and molten nylon, and a suitable mould.

Or use press-moulding with alu or steel moulds, which make the process easier, but the moulds costly.

Infusing with Caprolactam is a(expensive) poor mans solution, but the problems associated with it are high, mostly in terms of availability of suitable materials, then getting things to work with these materials.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-30-2012, 01:57 PM
Leon01323 Leon01323 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Rep: 27 Posts: 95
Location: England
At the moment the moulds i use are 4mm sheet steel that is has been bend and rolled to form the curve of the board.

ive seen the industrial moulds that press and heat the piece up all at the same time. They are amazing. But not something im going to get haha. i doubt im going to be able to do the caprolactam route. probably more than likely not going to be able to do the first process anyway haha.

got to make a few calls to some people i know with ovens and see if i can use them when they run other pieces through them.

Thanks for the ongoing advice
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:01 PM
Herman's Avatar
Herman Herman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rep: 1240 Posts: 1,617
Location: The Netherlands
Heating steel is not complicated. You can source some Mica elements and stick them to the steel. Something like www.ref.nl
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:09 PM
Leon01323 Leon01323 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Rep: 27 Posts: 95
Location: England
Ok so try not to laugh to much when i say this idea. I also own a clothing company that prints T shirts and what not. We have heat presses that go up to 300 degrees i think that look like this:



it is just one big heat pad, if i was to replace that heat pad with the metal top part of my mould and the bottom pad with the bottom part of my mould lay up inbetween clamp down the mould and heat it up to 300 degrees or what not then in theory it may work?

I know you guys work in big workshops with the proper equipment but im thinking basic test if it works here?

haha what do you reckon
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:14 PM
Herman's Avatar
Herman Herman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rep: 1240 Posts: 1,617
Location: The Netherlands
I guess that could work. How you heat the mould is not important.

Get 2 scrap pieces of metal sheet, apply release agent (suitable for the stuff) and make some test panels.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:16 PM
Leon01323 Leon01323 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Rep: 27 Posts: 95
Location: England
First I need to find a supplier for the prepreg stuff and whether or not I can get plain sheets of it or of they come with weave impregnated already.

Thanks again
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:05 PM
upchurchmr upchurchmr is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rep: 459 Posts: 1,456
Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA
Remember that you will need at least vacuum pressure, if not higher than that.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:14 PM
Leon01323 Leon01323 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Rep: 27 Posts: 95
Location: England
I was thinking that the pressure from clamping down in the press and maybe a couple of clamps on the metal mould plus the heat from
It would press it down. I basically don't have a clue and just thinking off the top of my head.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:59 PM
upchurchmr upchurchmr is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rep: 459 Posts: 1,456
Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA
Ask you prepreg supplier what the consolidation pressure should be.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-01-2012, 04:12 AM
Leon01323 Leon01323 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Rep: 27 Posts: 95
Location: England
Roger that. When I find a supplier I shall get all the info . When being the main word.

Thanks
Reply With Quote


  #30  
Old 05-01-2012, 08:08 AM
upchurchmr upchurchmr is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rep: 459 Posts: 1,456
Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA
Just remember that Nylon is not the only possible resin.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
visible weave in fiberglass sean-nůs Materials 9 04-08-2012 04:39 AM
Nylon vs. polyester peel ply tomherrick Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building 28 02-13-2012 04:37 PM
Weave or lots of layers of CSM Leon01323 Materials 27 10-18-2011 03:57 PM
PU coated nylon - glueing! wofforduk Materials 3 05-04-2010 01:48 PM
What weight & weave fiberglass? drs3317 Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building 0 12-04-2004 09:33 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:29 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Web Site Design and Content Copyright ©1999 - 2014 Boat Design Net