marine plywoods from china revisited

[yellowcat]

This is not a new subject but could be updated.
We are now in 2011, and after my searches via alibaba , i got prices surprisingly low for 3 mm plys, it has been a debate weather a stamp BB is valid or not from china.
The minimum orders are more or less a container . This is about twice my needs. I would like to build a 60 ft catamaran.
I am technically comfortable with wood and epoxy, costs also being at the top criteria level. But for specific areas of the hulls , and other parts such as furniture i can foresee more expensive composites.
HAs it been better quality plys from china ? and can we cross check the so called gold suppliers ? My friends could consider comboing an order with other thicknesses for outdoor uses such as docks, patios etc.
My project is for 2012 and 2013. I want to set my choices for 2012 and build 2013 this is a vacuum bagging project.
thank you for your input.
Mike

[rasorinc]

I would not trust anything made in China. They have added suppliments to food and milk and killed 1,000s of people. Their sheet rock poisoned 1,000s of homes here and has cost us
many millions of dollars. What more proof do you want? Nothing they put a stamp on can be believed. I would not put Chinese plywood in a boat if they gave it to me for free and offered a 15 year warranty. Making money is all they believe in, and care nothing about the affects of their shabby products on the health and safety of foreign populations. Who can you sue?????????????China??????????????sure.........Japan or Korea they are not. Fool me once,--OK--fool me twice and I'm stupid. Saving a few $$$$ is fine untill it kills you, or sinks you........ENOUGH SAID.

[troy2000]

OK, duly noted.

Now, has anyone had any actual experience with Chinese plywood on the market lately? Has the quality gone up, has it stayed the same or fallen, or is it so variable that it isn't worth taking a chance on? That's the sort of information the original poster was asking for....

I'm interested myself, because the boat PAR is drawing for me is going to take a lot of plywood.

[Landlubber]

Indonesia is the main source of Chinese plywood.

Head Office: LYMaN WING
Kota BNI
Jl. Jend. Sudirman Kav. 1
Jakarta Pusat - 10220
Telp. : +62. 21. 5708558
Fax. : +62. 21. 5745777
Indonesia

Plywood
ALBATROSS RS-MRT
Glue type T2 E2 Grade BB-CC
12mm x 1220 x 2440
7 ply 50 pc/bundle
You might like to contact these people.

[tunnels]

Originally Posted by rasorinc

I would not trust anything made in China. They have added suppliments to food and milk and killed 1,000s of people. Their sheet rock poisoned 1,000s of homes here and has cost us
many millions of dollars. What more proof do you want? Nothing they put a stamp on can be believed. I would not put Chinese plywood in a boat if they gave it to me for free and offered a 15 year warranty. Making money is all they believe in, and care nothing about the affects of their shabby products on the health and safety of foreign populations. Who can you sue?????????????China??????????????sure.........Japan or Korea they are not. Fool me once,--OK--fool me twice and I'm stupid. Saving a few $$$$ is fine untill it kills you, or sinks you........ENOUGH SAID.

I totally agree with what you are saying BUT when i was building a boat mould we were using 15mm ply and the huge voids between the veneers were frightening . Thats when i worked in South Korea and the ply came from china !!


Now the hand is in the other pocket i live and work in China and the quality of the ply we use is A1 its really good !!
Yes there is **** and you can point the finger directly at the importer in your country , What you are seeing is not the true representive of whats here and what availible .

When i lived in New Zealand same thing cloths made in china fell apart in a very short time and shoes were crap ! lucky to get to the car and they were coming apart BUT now i live here i have bought all chinese made shoes and cloths and the quality is tops and the prices are even better !!
There leather shoes are the best i ever owned and the price is so good so bought two pairs .
Every sunday i walk for 5 hours and the leather shoes have vertually no sign of wear even after 6 months of use
Track shoes made by a local company !not nike less than $20 nz !!at home you would have paid $100 nz for the same .

Seems they keep the best for them selves . But i would deffinatly point the finger at your importer !! he's just there to make as many bucks as he can and stuff every one else . Here made in China has a whole new meaning!!
If you keep buying **** they keep producing **** ,if you dont buy that they sell you better quality !

[PAR]

Get certification of grade from the supplier. If they are unwilling to do this, then you know what they actually are selling.

The stuff coming from the Chinese importers is well documented in recent years. They're selling quite unreliable stock and sticking BS-1088 labels on it for the mark up. I have seen some of this stuff and it indeed is crap, but frankly anyone taking delivery of this stuff can easily see it's not what they said it is, so if you don't return it or deny delivery, it's your own fault.

The bottom line is you have to get your stock from a trusted supplier and/or personally inspect the shipment. This is standard business practice folks, so . . .

[tunnels]

I still stick by the fact that the importer is 90% of your problems they want to make a quick buck and made in china over the centuries has never had a good reputation .
Its a rising power and let it be know that its going to scare the pants of a few people at what they have achieved in such a short space of time . Made in China is slowly going to change it status . I am going to do my up most to see that the boat company where i am gets there act together from this early stage and does steps ahead of any other company i have worked . Shanghai just had a composites expo a couple of weeks ago and i was blown away at what was there . they have the willingness to learn and to make things happen like i have never seen any where else . Sitting back grumbing will do you no good at all . you are going to end up with a foot print on you ass and another in the middle of your back where they will walk all over you .
They havent got the know how but are prepaired to buy it and use in and change it for the better , Asians see the world in a whole differant light to what eurporeans do so join em or get out of the way because they will be coming your way one day like it or not .

And boy there some nice chinese women !!

[Steve W]

I fully agree with tunnels, most of the chinese crap we get in the west is only here because of unscrupulous importers, i lived in Taiwan for 18 months and was thoroughly impressed by their desire and ability to do qualuty work, what hampered them was customers from the west wanting product for less than than their cost,you get what you pay for. The problem for the OP i think is he is looking to buy direct from China without going through an importer which seems particularly risky. He could end up with a great deal or absolute crap, I dont think i have used any Chinese marine plywood but have used a lot from Indonesia, Phillipines, Isreal, Aus, NZ, France, Holland and others and can honestly say ive never had a bad sheet with the BS1088 stamp,the very worst so called marine plywood ive seen is US made but to their credit they dont pretend its to BS1088 standards.
Steve.

[tunnels]

Originally Posted by Steve W

I fully agree with tunnels, most of the chinese crap we get in the west is only here because of unscrupulous importers, i lived in Taiwan for 18 months and was thoroughly impressed by their desire and ability to do qualuty work, what hampered them was customers from the west wanting product for less than than their cost,you get what you pay for. The problem for the OP i think is he is looking to buy direct from China without going through an importer which seems particularly risky. He could end up with a great deal or absolute crap, I dont think i have used any Chinese marine plywood but have used a lot from Indonesia, Phillipines, Isreal, Aus, NZ, France, Holland and others and can honestly say ive never had a bad sheet with the BS1088 stamp,the very worst so called marine plywood ive seen is US made but to their credit they dont pretend its to BS1088 standards.
Steve.

I love asian countries because there are genuine sincere people that want to learn and are very greatful to you if you take the time put in the effort to help them . They are always friendly and to me have become more like a family than my real family back in New Zealand .
I am sick of western attatudes and cant be bothered with all the bull **** and bad language and lack of respect from people that should know better .
I went home a few weeks ago and 30 minutes off the plane i wanted to reboard and just get away from the place , to think that was my home i couldnt believe it . Have lived and worked in South Korea and now china and this is my home now for as long as i can stay here.

[Manie B]

My importer "Schallies" is excellent.

All the 6 / 9 / 12 / 16 mm marine ply that my friends and I have bought from them over the past 3 years is from China with the BS 1088 and boil proof stamp.

THE STUFF IS EXCELLENT

I have worked it, cut it, soaked it for THREE MONTHS and still no problems.

NOTHING WRONG

And the prices are very good.

To blame China for all the wrongs as mentioned above is crazy and stooopid.
This Chinese ply is by far better than some of the other **** that gets sold here that is supposedly from Europe and elsewhere.

Bottom line is that if your importer is lousy the ply will be lousy.
You cant buy a whole container full if you did not inspect and supervise the loading of that container, and remember to seal it after loading.

[Manie B]

Please keep in mind that I am now building my 5th boat AND the cat is coming along fine.
All Chinese marine plywood, and my previous build - the chigger gets used every weekend and has been on the water for 3 Years

[tunnels]

Yeah we been brain washed for years into false thinking and if you step off the place you belong you are an outsider and looked down on . The chinese are like any one else breaking into a new market they are doing it better than better can be but thems with blinkers on dont like seeing what they are seeing . Thems can stay where they are cause i dont want to be there any more !!

[Steve W]

Yeah, having lived in Taiwan i get a little bit defensive when i hear the usual derogatory bs around the marina about the crappy Taiwan built boats of the 80s, yes there was a lot of crap but what people here dont realise is that there is virtally no pleasure boating over there so they relied heavilly on the expertise of the western supervisor, if crappy boats came out it was due to crappy supervision and/or crappy corner cutting customers in the west and crappy final consumer who were willing to accept crap to get a cheap new boat.
Steve.

[yellowcat]

Thanks for the infos. We are talking FOB Montreal around 3 to 4 times cheaper ... 2400 sheets at 6$ /unit instead of ... (for 2'x4'x1/8").

[yellowcat]

ManieB,
This site is great ! What would we do without the web now ? Bon voyage ! I was considering Alexseal paint system, i have used other outdoor epoxy based paint on my sailboat, still holding and makes great pictures, it is getting pretty dirty though.
Mike