It looks like Bondo!

Discussion in 'Materials' started by glassr, Sep 21, 2006.

  1. fiberglass jack
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: toronto

    fiberglass jack Senior Member

    hey have to use up that shity old resin and gel some way, worked in many shops and seen it all, the crap that is used will blow ur mind,but time is money thats the way some shops look at it , on my boat i spend the time and roll into the strikes takes a little longer
     
  2. JR-Shine
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Vero Beach, FL

    JR-Shine SHINE

    Its putty - resin and filler. Best bet is to make your own with epoxy and filler.
     
  3. glassr
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    Location: Melbourne Shores,Florida

    glassr Junior Member

    Hi everyone,
    It's been two long days of grinding that mystery filler!
    We'll finish that tomorrow,hopefully.
    fiberglass jack would you suggest we epoxy in some stips of 6or12oz. biaxial cloth to take up the space? We've got a bunch of 3" strips around that I would like to use up.
    Ondarvr,I wish they would have used another material as filler,this stuff is junk!
    JR-Shine if we go with the epoxy/filler route, what would you suggest as far as the mix? Would you go with epoxy,micro balloons,chopped glass?
    Or do you have a better mix in mind?
    I suggested to the owner today that we should run two layers of 45/45 biaxial cloth from fore to aft on the inside of the hull after the strakes are filled.We were thinking of using 12oz.
    If this seems like overkill to you all, I don't want anything to fail within a reasonable amount of time and I want to do this job once and never ever again!
    I also got the ok to search for the best solution for the stringers and bulkheads.The owner does not want any wood in the boat.
    Would any of you suggest using NidaCor in the stringers and bulkheads? Or is it best just to use it on floors? I thought I read where it doesn't do well in shear.
    And of the core foams,what would be the best for longevity/strength?
    BTW the stringers and bulkheads are all getting two layers of 45/45 biaxial cloth and will be tabbed in with biaxial, we just haven't decided on the weight of the cloth. If anyone has a better suggestions let me know.
    I'm going back to sweep up and shovel more dust. I am itchy!
     
  4. A Fn Noob
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Westminster,SC

    A Fn Noob Tinkerer

    Filler

    Hello. I am repairing a Ranger BassBoat and am trying to absorb as much knowledge about boat repairs as I can; just like the foam beneath my deck absorbed water.... Haha

    Anyway, Im sold on using epoxies, and have procured most of the materials I will need to replace the stringers, plywood deck, and foam. Im cutting the stringers to fit and nearly ready to get underway.

    I realize that once I go "epoxy", I cant "go back", but it's ok to use some polyester filler to smooth out areas that once cured, would make it easier to roll out my epoxy & fiberglass over the top, right?

    Is the bond between polyester and polyester a mechanical one, or a chemical one?


    I dont have access to any books to reference, Im in the sticks. The local library hasnt bought a new book since 1984, and the books they had on boats and fiberglass have been checked out since 1996.
     
  5. Richard Hillsid
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: Scandinavia

    Richard Hillsid Senior Member

    All these good mixtures above. I recon I have the most grouse one ever, for a filler but first another project.

    WHAT is IT

    interesting.jpg

    To help out, exported from England.

    Now to the worst , we needed to build bulk to a tool and fast, a rush job, order came in at 5 pm. and we were far from anywhere to by anything, all at hand was 100 Kg’s of polyester and some catalyst for it. Nothing else, no gloves, no fibber, no acetone, no anything…. we discovered a construction site down the road, and bought some fibreglass insulation 10 cm thick this turned out very tricky to get wet, but the outcome was ok and not too heavy either.
     
  6. glassr
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    Location: Melbourne Shores,Florida

    glassr Junior Member

    Hi Fn Noob, Use epoxy with epoxy.Don't mix your resin types.Take epoxy resin mix it with hardener and add microballoons or cabosil for consistency and add aluminum trihydrate for exotherm (so the mix won't get too hot),then go ahead and apply it for your fillets.Check the search area on this website for the books for fiberglass work.There are all kinds of websites with the books and there are alot of great posts from very knowledgeable people on this website! Use the search feature and you will learn alot!
    Richard Hillsid,that foam looks like Diab to me, but I could be wrong.And not having all of the necessary tools and materials for a rush job usually spells disaster!
     
  7. A Fn Noob
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Westminster,SC

    A Fn Noob Tinkerer

    No, I wouldnt mix the two, but Im asking basically if I can make my "fillets" with cheaper poly filler (Like at the auto store), let them cure, and then lay up my epoxy resin & cloth over it. With the cost of the epoxy resins, it would be cheaper to use polyester filler initially to pave a smooth surface on which to lay my new fiberglass cloth & epoxy resin.

    I realize that I can apply poly over epoxied surfaces (reliably) but I havent started fiberglassing yet.
     
  8. glassr
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    Location: Melbourne Shores,Florida

    glassr Junior Member

    Hi, A Fn Noob
    We don't use poly or vinyl resins at all, ever. I want my fillets to be sound over the long haul. All of the repairs and hull lay ups we do are put through alot of punishment by our customers. We don't use any auto store fillers either. With that stuff you 're just asking for trouble. I know epoxy is expensive, my accountant(my wife) complains about material costs constantly.
    But if you want to build a quality structure for yourself or a customer, bite the bullet and spend the cash on the epoxy. It pays off in the long run!
    Sincerely,
    glassr
     
  9. fiberglass jack
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: toronto

    fiberglass jack Senior Member

    its a bassboat more then likly it was layed up with poly, save your money and use vinyalester it will bond v good to poly , its not like hes going to be doing a buck twenty on the water, for your fillets use some cabosil and milled fiber add this to the resin ( add the harder to the resin first then the filler this way all the putty will go hard and u wont have soft spots) remember epoxy over poly and never the other way around, some people will go on about transition resins and so on, all i ever use is V E when repairing poly and in the past have just used poly most shops just use poly for repairs even thou they will tell you different
     
  10. glassr
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    Location: Melbourne Shores,Florida

    glassr Junior Member

    I guess we just like overkill,no failures, no complaints,no bad reps.Fiberglass Jack, I have a bass boat(Talon 20)that does 92mph on gps. It scares the heck out of me and friends being that close to the water going that fast!
    All of the glasswork was done with West System epoxy and it is virtually bullet proof. But just damn too expensive if it is out of your own pocket!
     
  11. Jimbo1490
    Joined: Jun 2005
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    Location: Orlando, FL

    Jimbo1490 Senior Member

    glassr, you ought to look into buying drums of epoxy and blending the curing agents and modifiers to fit your needs. It's not really all that hard to do; the old Shell Resins website was a freakin' goldmine of info for the would-be formulator. I see that much of it was taken down when they sold the resin biz off a few years back. There was no money in epoxy back when oil was so cheap. I was lucky enough to have downloaded and printed much of it back then. Epoxy resin winds up only about $24 a gallon when you cut out the middle man. The manufacturers are still pretty generous with samples so you can try out different hardeners and modifiers till you come up with a combo(s) you like.

    BTW, West is reputed to be nothing more than Epon 828, the standard epoxy resin, with a mono-epoxide thinner and a blend of amines for hardener. Of course the exact formula is a trade secret, but all the stuff is available in bulk for way less.

    Jimbo
     
  12. glassr
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    Location: Melbourne Shores,Florida

    glassr Junior Member

    Hi Jimbo , Thanks for the info about the resins, we try only to buy enough for each job with not much left overs due to such small profit margins that we seem to have. We stay busy, but it just seems to get more expensive every day!I wish we could afford to buy drums,I have a 36' cc cat I want to build but the accountant (my wife) says "Are you nuts?" Jimbo you are pretty close to us being from Orlando. Who do you get supplies from?
    Thanks,
    glassr
     
  13. Jimbo1490
    Joined: Jun 2005
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    Location: Orlando, FL

    Jimbo1490 Senior Member

    My favorite resin is from a company called CVC specialty chemicals out of New Jersey:

    http://www.cvcchem.com/

    Their distributor was out of Atlanta, though that seems to have changed since the last time I bought. Their lowest grade resin is the chemical equivalent of Epon 862, though it is actually an improvement over that in that it has much lower viscosity than 862. This is a 'bisphenol F' resin rather than a standard 'bisphenol A' resin like 828. BPF resins make a stronger, harder, less brittle, more chemical and heat resistant cured epoxy than BPA resins and they are thinner viscosity.

    The last quote I got from their distributor was about $38/gallon by the 5 gal pail or $29/gal by the drum.

    Jimbo
     

  14. A Fn Noob
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Westminster,SC

    A Fn Noob Tinkerer

    Well, Im no expert on boats, but the after tearing into this one, it's clear that polyester does a very poor job over time of adhering to wood. I got some fairing-stuff from the place I got my resin.

    btw, the hull on this bassboat was designed by a guy named Paul Allison.

    Thanks for the answers.
     
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