International-Awcraft-Hempel-Altex

[Roly]

I have searched the forum for comparative performance on these manufacturers
for 2 pack LPU. No definitive experience on multi brands coming up.
Hempel represents a considerable saving and if I go to "Industrial version" of some manufacrurers.
No point though if durability is down. Then there is ease of application, which should be similar for LPU's.
Anyone have a hempel job with miles on it?

[pauloman]

see www.epoxyproducts.com/lpu.html

basically two kinds of lpu - acrylic poly and polyester poly. Also a few blends of the two.
pricewise, one of the biggest boating price markup products. (several hundred %)

paul oman progressive epoxy polymers inc.

[Roly]

Originally Posted by pauloman

see www.epoxyproducts.com/lpu.html

basically two kinds of lpu - acrylic poly and polyester poly. Also a few blends of the two.
pricewise, one of the biggest boating price markup products. (several hundred %)

paul oman progressive epoxy polymers inc.

Hi Paul,
Hope this finds you well.
I remember you from WBF.
I haven't been to your (very helpful) website for years.
Unfortunately, with shipping, it wouldn't be the cheapest solution, if possible,
as I am in NZ.
Hempel marine LPU seems to be the only lpu < $200/4l. I just don't like to have to pay for a whole lot of marketing for basically the same product.
I'm trying to save dimes here and there to finish the build.
I will try a test spray of Altex (commercial) on the transom and see how it goes.

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by pauloman

see www.epoxyproducts.com/lpu.html

basically two kinds of lpu - acrylic poly and polyester poly. Also a few blends of the two.
pricewise, one of the biggest boating price markup products. (several hundred %)

paul oman progressive epoxy polymers inc.

Paul, I couldn't use your epoxy (wasn't infusion type), but I do need a ton of LPU paint. Do you have color matching ability, or the ability to send your paint out for custom pigments added to it?

PS: I also need to cover a very large area (deck of 45' x 25' boat) in white.

[Steve W]

Dupont, PPG etc have been making Acrylic urethane automotive paints for many years,the same chemistry as awlcraft,we have had very good results with car paints for decades, not sure if its any cheaper but i like the virtually unlimited pallet of colors and availability in anytown, (name your country) as for durability,cars have a much harder life than boats.
Steve.

[michael pierzga]

Ive used all the big name marine paints. Seems to be little difference in longevity. 3 to 5 years in high UV conditions. All good paints.

The big differences in paint systems is usability.

Hemples system is not good for brush and roll to a high standard finish, International is OK..Awlgrip is the best. The characteristics of the Awlgrip Brushing catalyst and thinner gives perfect roll brush results. Awlgrips defect is that its eye watering expensive ..200 euros for a one quart package of thinner, paint and cat.

[Roly]

Originally Posted by michael pierzga

Ive used all the big name marine paints. Seems to be little difference in longevity. 3 to 5 years in high UV conditions. All good paints.

The big differences in paint systems is usability.

Hemples system is not good for brush and roll to a high standard finish, International is OK..Awlgrip is the best. The characteristics of the Awlgrip Brushing catalyst and thinner gives perfect roll brush results. Awlgrips defect is that its eye watering expensive ..200 euros for a one quart package of thinner, paint and cat.

Then perhaps Hempel is a little harder to spray as well. I have never done a roll & tip, preferring to spray.
I have only sprayed altex. Once you get the thinners proportion right it is ok.
If you are not doing it frequently it seems you have to re-tune to the conditions. It seems some of the above are more forgiving than others.

Awlgrip would want to be pretty forgiving for that price!
Perhaps International interspray 900 is somewhere in between?

[michael pierzga]

I dont spray...to expensive.... so can only comment on roll and brush.

Best to ask your local boatbuilders. Perhaps there is a local product that gives best value.

[waikikin]

Originally Posted by Steve W

Dupont, PPG etc have been making Acrylic urethane automotive paints for many years,the same chemistry as awlcraft,we have had very good results with car paints for decades, not sure if its any cheaper but i like the virtually unlimited pallet of colors and availability in anytown, (name your country) as for durability,cars have a much harder life than boats.
Steve.

Roly, this would be my choice for your needs, good durability, repairable, forgiving to spray... of the odd run to shave/sand & buff.... buffable!!!

There's no doubt that the LPU paints are "better" & "tougher", but until your fully experienced in the characteristics of the brand you've chosen you can be experiencing some learning curve.

The "Awlcraft"/ 2K auto style paints are "better" for other reasons(cost being one, sometimes white might be on special for maybe 160 per 4 liters + reducer & "hardener" at reasonable cost) having "exit"/contigency of buffing or a sand & reshoot for low cost, the choice of colours as mentioned. Durability can be good, I've got a boggy old Toyota camry in Burgundy with clear over... parked outside in sunny OZ for half its 15 years & the roof is still good! All the best from Jeff.

[mastcolin]

Originally Posted by Roly

I have searched the forum for comparative performance on these manufacturers
for 2 pack LPU. No definitive experience on multi brands coming up.
Hempel represents a considerable saving and if I go to "Industrial version" of some manufacrurers.
No point though if durability is down. Then there is ease of application, which should be similar for LPU's.
Anyone have a hempel job with miles on it?

What are you trying to achieve? A super fine finish as on a superyacht/car or are you just wanting something harder and more durable than a 1 pack?

What is your substrate like? Prep skills? What colour are you wanting? You spraying or brushing?

If you go down the "índustrial route" eg International 990 you get a polyurethane with good hardness and durability but it's gloss and flow is slightly less than an awlgrip type. The ïndustrial type coatings also don't usually brush very well given that they are designed for normally airless applied or slapped on with roller.

If your substrate isn't perfectly smooth either in fairness or on a more micro level ie rough sanded you have nothing to gain by using a super high gloss product. It will just show up all the imperfections. An industrial type with less gloss will be more forgiving..but you'll still see all the flaws. Sorry. There is no short-cut here...unless you use a satin finish.

I don't know what Hempels product you are suggesting. The yacht finish? This is awlgrip-like. International also do "Perfection" which is predominantly diy/brush but can be sprayed very good. (ignore the label on the can that says 'do not spray' this is a health and safety legal instruction to stop diy people spraying in their garden and killing themselves or neighbours. There is no technical reason not to spray product with the appropriate precautions.)

[keith66]

I have sprayed International 709 & it went on ok, tended to orange peel though unless over thinned, Blakes 2 pack sprayed well but was soft & easily scratched.
Hempels 2 pack was very good, Epifanes 2 pack was best of the lot giving a fantastic finish with both spray & brush. Awlgrip i havent used.

[Roly]

Originally Posted by mastcolin

What are you trying to achieve? A super fine finish as on a superyacht/car or are you just wanting something harder and more durable than a 1 pack?
A decently thick cover with no runs & no peel! Good durability.

What is your substrate like? Prep skills? What colour are you wanting? You spraying or brushing?
5 coats of epoxy primer #2 & #3 Light grey; Spraying

If you go down the "índustrial route" eg International 990 you get a polyurethane with good hardness and durability but it's gloss and flow is slightly less than an awlgrip type. The ïndustrial type coatings also don't usually brush very well given that they are designed for normally airless applied or slapped on with roller.

If your substrate isn't perfectly smooth either in fairness or on a more micro level ie rough sanded you have nothing to gain by using a super high gloss product. It will just show up all the imperfections. An industrial type with less gloss will be more forgiving..but you'll still see all the flaws. Sorry. There is no short-cut here...unless you use a satin finish.
220 grit minimum


I don't know what Hempels product you are suggesting. The yacht finish? This is awlgrip-like. International also do "Perfection" which is predominantly diy/brush but can be sprayed very good. (ignore the label on the can that says 'do not spray' this is a health and safety legal instruction to stop diy people spraying in their garden and killing themselves or neighbours. There is no technical reason not to spray product with the appropriate precautions.)

Hempel 5510; my shed has a 600mm extractor, dont know the m3/min but it is adequate. I have full face forced air respirator from opposite end of shed to extractor

[michael pierzga]

For topcoating prep , 220 sandpaper is to heavy...it will leave scratches that will become visible when the topcoat paint film shrinks. The big pro paint companies doing superyacht finishing use 320 for topcoat prep. Typical topcoat shot is ...tack coat then two times around.

If you will paint the hull white then the colour and application is very forgiving ...Blue or dark colours are challenging.. Even the pros end up doing dark colours twice.

I cant remember the number of the Hemples Poly White that Ive been using , but I do remember that mixing the two components is a bit fiddly when mixing small batches. Its 3 or 4 ? to one. Develop a good measuring system.

You can save yourself aggravation by painting the hull striping...cove, boot etc first...then cover and shoot the hull.

All the pros wash down the entire surface and work area with soap , water and a soft yacht quality scrub brush before taping off and shooting. Avoid solvent washing.

[Roly]

Stop helping me Michael I can't give you anymore credit!
Awesome mate, thanks!
320 it is.
According to spec sheet 7:1;Kinda odd as most others are 4:1 or less.
The hardener must have less fillers or something?
Also it is aliphatic acrylic polyurethane ENAMEL
Never heard lpu's having enamel tacked on the end before.

Pretty cheap at 185$nz/5l

[MechaNik]

If you are based in NZ I can't imagine there being a better value for money product than Altex. It competes internationally so there must be great savings.

As for Yacht LPU's I am always amazed by the failures of of these new formula's. I have friends who are still dealing with disasters from major paint paint suppliers. In one local marina here there is a super yacht with Jotun mega yacht top coat that is literally falling off, I understood it was meant to be their show piece too.
The fault is always put back onto the applicator too.

Basically just make sure you are getting the right support from supplier, because if something goes wrong they will just say you didn't know what you were doing IMHO.