inexpensive plywood

[meducks]

hi i was wondering what the most inexpensive acceptable plywood would be for a 16 foot skiff

[rasorinc]

ACX exterior plywood with waterproof glue. One side A grade, 1 side C grade.
X = exterior with waterproof adhesive to keep it together. Do not buy China grade.
comes in 1/4, 3/8, 5/8, 1/2, and 3/4. Go to a regular lumber yard--not Home Depot type stores. When using this, I upgrade 1/8" in size to allow for any voids.

[PAR]

The ACX sold in Lowe's/Depot is the same ACX they sell in a lumber yard. They buy it from the same suppliers, who get it from the same mills.

This said, ACX is about the crappiest plywood you can buy for many reasons, voids included. It's not manufactured for bending into boat shapes, nor dynamic loading, both of which a boat will impart on it.

The best thing you can do is double the plywood count at half it's thickness. By this I mean, if the plans call for a 1/2" plywood what ever, then use two pieces of 1/4", epoxied together. This is more costly, but not as costly as marine grade plywood and you'll get the strength and veneer count necessary to bend and support loads, which the ACX can't offer as a straight 1/2" sheet.

As an example, lets continue with the 1/2" scantling. The 1/2" ACX sheet will be 3 veneers, hopefully equal thickness, lots of voids, overlapping internal veneers, internal and external veneer defects, etc. all making the plywood weak and inferior. If you use two layers of 1/4" ACX, you'll now have 6 veneers, an extra glue line of epoxy and a much tougher plywood panel, that's still cheaper then marine grade. One added advantage to doing it this way is you can avoid scarf joints, by overlapping (staggering) the seams between the two 1/4" sheets.

[rasorinc]

Par is right about it being crap. Although some mills are better than others. Using 2 sheets of 1/4" to make 1/2" is, of course, much better and it also allows for an A face on the exterior and the interior. Question is what type of boat you want and what type of quality do you want. If you want a mud boat to last 2 years then use OSB type board. Joke...

[michael pierzga]

Only a few sheets of ply needed for a 16ft skiff....why go thru the trouble of laminating inferior grade ply with expensive epoxy ? ....BS 6566 Meranti ply is cheap and cheerful boatbuilding wood . Perhaps you should Save up 200 bucks then build a skiff you can be proud of .

[PAR]

A sheet of 3 veneer ACX is about 10 bucks, two sheets glued together with "expensive" epoxy is about 30 bucks. A BS-1088 sheet of 1/2" meranti is about 80 bucks (retail), you be the judge. BS-1088 Okoume is about 115 bucks. So, even the most expensive epoxy in the world still comes to prove that Michael doesn't have a clue. Even if you down grade to BS-6566 meranti it's still $65 a sheet for 1/2". Of course I don't pay anything near this, but the average Joe's do.

Some boats aren't worth marine grade materials, like Uncle John's skiff, or a few of the simple flat bottom classics like the Lumberyard, or even my Digger design. I personally, would try to use the best that I could on these, but it's hard to justify several hundred in "Joubert" quality on a flats boat that will get dragged up a rocky beach into it's bottom falls off.

Douglas fir is a fine plywood, so long as you don't have to finish it pretty. It does tend to check and this is difficult to control without a thick sheathing, but for bulkheads, furniture framing, shelves inside cabinets, sole supports, bilge partitions, seat and berth tops (I can think of a hundred uses), it's just fine, cheap, strong, bla, bla, bla. In places you need to use it, but don't want to deal with finishing it, use MDO, which is marine grade Douglas fir, except covered with rosin paper. It paints up nice and with some molding glued to it, can look "raised panel" like.

[michael pierzga]

Par...you like to tell people they don't have a " clue" ... a classic technique used for desperately hanging onto " status" as a slapjack Florida boat builder flogging his amateurish, warmed over, two feet longer than the original, designs on boatdesign net.

Not much can been done about this phenomenon .. its classic Internet forum behavior, A WANNABE DESIGNER , offering advice and designs that builders will not pay for .....

For readers of Boatdesign .net, you must simply understand this relationship . Free advertising...anyone can be a Pro....

I suggest readers do independent research then make their own decisions.

[PAR]

Michael, you've proven over and over and over again, that you have at the very least a propensity to "mis-speak" which is the way politicians like to say they screwed up with their mouth. You tackle subject matter that you literally haven't the foggiest about, with surprising regularity. I've challenged you repeatedly for confirmation of your facts or substantiation of your professed theories, but to no avail, you're literally are helpless, hapless, in fact clueless and don't even see how much you attempt to chew on. Other then yourself, no one would ever consider that I'm self promoting my work here, I don't need to Michael. I haven't had to look for work in a couple of decades. I've asked before and I'll try again, speak what you know, which as others and myself can attest, isn't design or construction.

[michael pierzga]

I don't mis speak PAR... but you dribble . It cracks me up that you use REP point retaliation for people who stand up and point out that you're only a half wit gator boy yacht designer lurking on Boatdesign net attempting to flog his services. PAR the famous .... "do you know who I am " ? guy.

Hey PAR...need a link for Pre cut Puzzle joint plywood ? and tell us again about plank stock...rift cut vs quarter sawn......

[Boston]

Par's got a gruff way about him sometimes but he's earned it as near as I can tell. Although I'm staring at a piece of 5 ply 1/2 exterior something right now that I use for installing glass and its bomb stuff, I think I paid 30 a sheet for it. The ACX is a home nit wits special cause its bread and butter, there's lots of ply options that can be "tuned" to the overall value of the build. IMHO. I'm not thinking when I do finally get rolling on my build that I'm relegated to either the cheap ass stuff or the ultra expensive stuff, there material in the middle of the range that will work.

[PAR]

I'm only gruff to those that can't answer the questions asked of them. I've asked dozens of little Mikey, but he never answers, just changes the subject as he's done once again here. He's attempting to turn the debate around on his own statements.

I've done it before, shall I dissect yet another set of Michael boys posts to show where he's skidded off the road? He states:

Only a few sheets of ply needed for a 16ft skiff

lets assume he means 10 sheets, which is more then a few, but hey, lets just call this syntax and move on. 10 sheets of which lovely plywood for the "junk yard skiff" will you use, Mikey? The recommend BS-1088, for a plywood bill off $1,150. Well aren't you the economical one. Well you say, maybe the BS-6566 meranti for a $650 dollar bill, even the imposable to finish Douglas fir APA1-95 stuff is a $500 bill compared to $300 for the ACX. The BS-1088 is only about 4 times more costly, all for a "fish flats skiff". We should all bow to your wise and noble incite, to the questions you once again failed miserably to self support.

As I've said previously, I've intentionally picked you, not because this is my way, but simply because of your seemingly unwillingness to defend, the sometimes outrageous or plainly stupid comments you make. It would be much different if you could substantiate your points, but you never do, you just use a "bait and switch" tactic and turn the questions into more questions or personal attacks when you are called out for an explanation. I'm not the only one here who has noticed this about.

Yep, I'm a points whore Michael, I've paid many people off, so I can artificially jack up my reputation. I don't award or detract points often, but when I do, I always "sign the card" so you know where it came from and why. This isn't an off the cuff thing with you, I've been fairly consistent beating up on your for answers to your "dribble". You see, the only difference between us is my dribble can be substantiated and others here will attest to it relevance, while yours rarely is, making it fodder for the gun I've leveled at you. On all most every occasion, I've used your own words, beliefs and theories against you, which is probably why you're so displeased. So, if you have issue, please open you mouth and hand over some more fodder for the gun.

[eric raguckis]

par, you word yourself very well, i am a new to boat building have been a carpender for 15 years.Delt with many people that word them self's well but execution was poor. Please show us that you know what your talking about and that will be that.
thank eric raguckis
ps. i too don't have a problem putting my name out there too, even though i don't know about boat building but i will soon and hope to learn from guys like you and other's that know what they are talking about and share their knowledge with the rest of us

[PAR]

Eric, not only do I "word" myself, but I've been doing well in the assorted industries, for many decades now. I don't have anything to prove that my previous words and actions haven't already supported. You don't get to mine or Michael status without considerable previous contribution and participation. I think my efforts here speak for themselves. If you'd like a client list, drop me an email.

[Boston]

Par
I once built a house for the secretary of state, custom windows for a former president and various woodwork for more famous people than I can count
only means I got the contract
look at me now
broke and feeling stupid
hardly able to muster enough cash to build a retirement "something"
I don't mean by any call to belittle another mans success but client list means nothing
I would however love to see some of your work
granted its food for another thread but still I'd be dam curious
thanks and hope all is well
B

[PAR]

Dan you've already seen some of my work. I'm not a big picture taker or owner of "brag books", but there have been many images of designs, personal and profession builds in various threads over the years.

The images of the hardtop cruiser is a 1965 Lyman "Sleeper" I restored not long ago. The film my other half used, as we lifted her off the blocking and place her back on a trailer, was old and made some interesting photos. I'm the skinny, bald spot guy. The reflections on the planking will give you an indication of the quality of the 2 year project. It wasn't completed yet, but was within a few weeks of being so and it was a big moment for the other half, as it was going back on the trailer out of her sight from the window. (she hated the client, who admittedly was a big dick)

The next is the assembled frame for my RYD-22.11 (Cooper Jr.) design. Some other self builds, to my own designs are also viable in the shop, including my old Club Cadet, which died a few years ago and I still miss.

The last image is RYD-26 getting rolled over. The is Copper Jr's big brother and the original of the Cooper series. This is a 28' boat and I'm still the skinny guy in the back ground (far left) trying to figure out how I'm going to get the heavy cradle up on the concrete pad while the back hoe is tied up holding the boat in the air.

According to my "User's CP" I have 105 attachments in various threads on this forum. Many are sketches describing something, but others are my work, which I've never attempted to publish, promote or other wise peddle here on on any other web site.

The thread mentioned earlier about the puzzle joints? Well I looked it up and interestingly enough I posted an image showing my version of the Payson butt joint as an alternative to a complicated puzzle joint. That image has been downloaded 93 times, suggesting one of us has been helpful at least this may times in one posting.

Again, I don't think I have anything to prove, that hasn't been over the nearly decade long participation here. Maybe it would be best if you started a poll and found what the rest of the membership felt.