Gorrilla Glue for leak-proofing

[RandomGuy]

Evening Folks,

I'm planning to build a plywood outrigger canoe. I've never built a boat before, and I'm seeking the cheapest method of effective leak-proofing. From what I understand, epoxy seems to be the big one - especially on stitch-and-glue boats which, from what I can see, derive a lot of their structural integrity from seam-strength because they don't have a prominent frame structure - please correct me if I'm wrong. However, I've designed my canoe so that the seams should be pretty tight together to begin with, since the plywood will be nailed to a simple frame. In this case, I'm just wondering if I can fore go the high cost of epoxy and use gorilla glue to leakproof my hull? I've read varying opinions on the stuff, so I'm wondering what you experienced guys think of it?

Much appreciated,

RG

[kenJ]

I can't comment on the gorilla glue, for longevity of your hull, it is much better to fasten the hull to the frames with screws rather than nails.

[michael pierzga]

leaks mean GAPS...glue is not a gap filler. Epoxy is a gap filling adhesive..

Big box store tubes of construction adhesive caulking will work is you can develope clamping pressure with fastenings to squeeze it in the joint. Its cheap stuff. Messy to work with. Dont use silicone.

[viking north]

First of all welcome to the forum,--For the extra cost of say $100 to $150 why sacrifice all your hard work on a gamble that is most likely to fail. The added feature is since this is your first build and if your woodworking skills are not yet honed epoxy as pointed out is a great board stretcher. Also with a layer or so of glass tape on the seams you not only create a good watertight seal but add greatly to the strength.

A yacht is not defined by the vessel but by the care and love of her owner--

[philSweet]

In the US, epoxy isn't very expensive if you do some research. It is cheaper than poyester in some places. Cheaper than Vynlester, and 1/3 the cost of decent paint or varnish. I usually try for 1/3 the price that Jamestown Distributors wants for West System. Its out there if you look. These guys are one of dozens of formulators. They sell laminating epoxy for $36 for a one gallon kit.

http://www.fascoepoxies.com/products.html

compare to Jamestown Distributors -

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...05+Epoxy+Resin

[viking north]

Phil my good man you have just added to my buying list when I go Stateside--I just recently paid over $600 Can.for 5 U.S.gal plus hardner, Brand Name.The search is on for one of your suppliers--Tnx. Geo.

[RandomGuy]

Interesting. I wasn't aware that epoxy came that cheap - and I certainly don't want to risk my boat coming apart if other adhesives won't do the trick. I see that in the links you provided, there's several different types of epoxy. Is there a very specific type or grade/brand of epoxy I should use for a boat project, or is all the stuff similar enough that basically anything labeled "epoxy" will do the trick?

[tom28571]

Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Evening Folks,

I'm planning to build a plywood outrigger canoe. I've never built a boat before, and I'm seeking the cheapest method of effective leak-proofing. From what I understand, epoxy seems to be the big one - especially on stitch-and-glue boats which, from what I can see, derive a lot of their structural integrity from seam-strength because they don't have a prominent frame structure - please correct me if I'm wrong. However, I've designed my canoe so that the seams should be pretty tight together to begin with, since the plywood will be nailed to a simple frame. In this case, I'm just wondering if I can fore go the high cost of epoxy and use gorilla glue to leakproof my hull? I've read varying opinions on the stuff, so I'm wondering what you experienced guys think of it?

Much appreciated,

RG

I am lost here. Where did the idea come from that Gorilla Glue is cheaper than epoxy? In addition Gorilla is not nearly as waterproof as epoxy, is not gap filling and has a short shelf life. After trying some a few years ago, I concluded that Gorilla Glue is an over hyped, over priced material, inferior to several others in applications where they are best suited.

The power of advertising, I guess.

[viking north]

Agree Tom--tried it in a few woodworking projects(furniture) in the shop and was dissapointed.

[philSweet]

Random, No, not all the same. Call the vendor and ask them for their recommendations.
Get a guide book on basic epoxy recipes for making your own faring compounds and putties and filleting goos etc. There is a whole range of epoxyspeak regarding this stuff. You'll hear people say "mix up some coolwhip and...." Generally, if you only want to buy one type, get low viscosity and buy thixotropic additives and "bubble" additives to modify it. You may want to splurge on a small amount of fast setting stuff to save time.
It really helps to have someone show you the basics. Maybe some How-to videos on YouTube now??

[Steve Clark]

Boats were built of plywood nailed or screwed to frames for many years before epoxy became standard best practice. You will want to put some form of bedding in between the plywood and the chine logs and other structural timbers. This keeps the boat from leaking, but also keeps water out of the joints where it can soften and ultimately rot the wood. Bedding compounds can be high tech, or pretty crude, like thickened paint from the bottom of old cans. All that being said, unless you are making a fetish of building at the lowest possible cost, best practices don't cost much more than being sleazy, and you will be happier using real glue.
I have used Gorilla Glue on boats for some time now. I think it is at least as good as Resorcinol, Casemite, or any of the pre-exoxy waterproof glues. I wouldn't use it for small highly loaded glue joints, but for many things it's pretty cool. I used it to bond foam bulkheads into a stitch and glue IC for example, and it was just fine.
SHC

[michael pierzga]

Yes indeed. For many years I had a reliable doug fir plywood over oak skiff without one drop of epoxy on it. Only bedding compound.
If you decide to go epoxy free make sure that your design...its structural engineering ....is up to the task.

[CatBuilder]

Gorilla glue is a gap filler, sort of - it expands and foams as it cures, but it is way more expensive than epoxy. Try one of the off brand epoxy suppliers. Not the big three or 4 companies. Raka, that guy Paul from this forum that sells it, etc.

Much cheaper than gorilla glue.

[JosephT]

Gorilla glue will cause you more problems than you can count. Agree with others there are better sources for good epoxy out there. I built a few wooden boats using Raka epoxy systems...good prices, fast delivery...top quality.

http://www.raka.com/

Inquire about their special slow set resin/hardner for wooden boats. As I recall I used their 127 resin & 350 hardener. It bites deep into the wood which contributes to a very strong hull.

[tom28571]

Agree absolutely that good boats have been and are still being built with no epoxy of glue of any kind. On the other hand, if you are going to use glue, there is no better and more forgiving one than epoxy in all its forms. Its a superior water resistant coating, gap filler and structural joining medium that requires no clamping at all. For a glued lapstrake hull, epoxy is my first choice although many are having good results with PL and other polyurethanes.

Those who don't like epoxy probably don't respect the fact that it has a learning curve like all other materials.