Divinycell vs Core Cell

[CatBuilder]

Well, the people who sell (and make) Core Cell have given me a quote, then upped the quote by 20% when it was time to send my credit card information.

It is not a small order - in the $20K range.

In response, they berated me and told me they were offended that I wanted the material at the price of the original quote they sent me. They said something about not having the material in stock and having to "make it for me", though I was told it was in "overstock" on the original quote. They expected me to just roll over and take a 20% increase in price from the original quote. They suggested that a markdown of 25% below retail was a great deal and I should be very thankful to them. Mind, you, all other material (glass, epoxy) has come in at 50% off retail at the quantities I am purchasing. Unbelievable sales team, right?

While talking to my wife, I realized the sales team there are complete @ssholes and really treated me poorly. I would advise anyone to steer clear of these people.

I will put up the full correspondence I had with them at some point if they do not honor their quote.

So... how do people feel about DIAB's Divinycell compared to Core Cell as a material? The sales team sure is a lot more professional and I'd rather give DIAB my money. Any Divinycell fans out there? Other good foams?

[rberrey]

I could,nt get good prices on core cell, go with the divinycell and spend the saveings on fit out.

[War Whoop]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Well, the people who sell (and make) Core Cell have given me a quote, then upped the quote by 20% when it was time to send my credit card information.

It is not a small order - in the $20K range.

In response, they berated me and told me they were offended that I wanted the material at the price of the original quote they sent me. They said something about not having the material in stock and having to "make it for me", though I was told it was in "overstock" on the original quote. They expected me to just roll over and take a 20% increase in price from the original quote. They suggested that a markdown of 25% below retail was a great deal and I should be very thankful to them. Mind, you, all other material (glass, epoxy) has come in at 50% off retail at the quantities I am purchasing. Unbelievable sales team, right?

While talking to my wife, I realized the sales team there are complete @ssholes and really treated me poorly. I would advise anyone to steer clear of these people.

I will put up the full correspondence I had with them at some point if they do not honor their quote.

So... how do people feel about DIAB's Divinycell compared to Core Cell as a material? The sales team sure is a lot more professional and I'd rather give DIAB my money. Any Divinycell fans out there? Other good foams?

Who were you dealing with?

[marshmat]

I'm guessing you're thinking of Divinycell H. It's a fairly common core, a bit more ductile and less heat resistant than Core-Cell. I've heard that it might be a bit more prone to water damage than Core-Cell, but this isn't really a problem if you're smart about how you use it and seal any penetrations correctly. I'd avoid Divinycell H in any areas that will be painted dark (it weakens dramatically above 70 Celsius).

From a technical standpoint, I'd have a slight preference for Core-Cell, but the vendor issue can be a big one and I'll take a helpful vendor with a good product over a troublesome vendor with a great product.

[rberrey]

Either core must meet the strength requirements of the designer, ask your designer if divinycell H will meet his requirements. If so, one is no better than the other as far as basic strength of the boat . One core may have better quilities in some areas than the other , but each will be the same in the area that is important, designers requirements, or he will tell you not to use it. Go to bateau,s fourm and search the core section . rick

[Ad Hoc]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Well, the people who sell (and make) Core Cell have given me a quote, then upped the quote by 20% when it was time to send my credit card information.

Your location says "Northeast"..but of where?

If you're in the UK, a "quotation" is legally binding, and the final figure cannot vary more than 10% of the final price. That is why many give an "estimate" which is not legally binding.

It is to prevent exactly what is occuring with you....

PS..forgot to add. Just finsihed designing a workboat using Divinycell core...no probelms at all.

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by War Whoop

Who were you dealing with?

For now, I'll just say, "the head honcho." Later, if they don't honor their quote, I'll share my whole experience here, pasted in emails and all.

Glad to hear Divinycell is good too.

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by Ad Hoc

Your location says "Northeast"..but of where?

If you're in the UK, a "quotation" is legally binding, and the final figure cannot vary more than 10% of the final price. That is why many give an "estimate" which is not legally binding.

It is to prevent exactly what is occuring with you....

PS..forgot to add. Just finsihed designing a workboat using Divinycell core...no probelms at all.

I'm in the States. Much less regulation, which is good, but the lack of ethics is bad!

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by rberrey

Either core must meet the strength requirements of the designer, ask your designer if divinycell H will meet his requirements. If so, one is no better than the other as far as basic strength of the boat . One core may have better quilities in some areas than the other , but each will be the same in the area that is important, designers requirements, or he will tell you not to use it. Go to bateau,s fourm and search the core section . rick

Rick,

I can use any core at all, so long as it's one of the majors. The design uses Airex, Divinycell or Core Cell (Kledgecell too, I think). They're all good, according to the designer.

[Steve W]

I agree with all the above, ive used airex and klegecell, but not corecell. All work fine.One can get a bit carried away comparing numbers with all this stuff.Derek Kellsall has been doing foam core longer than anyone and is perfectly happy using any of the common foams and polyester resin to boot and has the history to back up his choices. My sons boat is 23yrs old klegecell and AME 4000 resin and is as good as when i built it,if i had used corecell and 100% solids epoxy it would not be a better boat,only more expensive.
Steve.

[CatBuilder]

That's good to hear, Steve. Also, as a little data point, I looked at about a dozen (more, actually) catamarans from the mid-1990's a couple years back in South FL. Every single one I saw had some delamination issues (some major), except the Kelsall. I think that says something to agree with your post.

[rxcomposite]

It has been reported that light coloured decks can get up to 150 F at Florida sun and up to 200 F in the Arabian area. Check your epoxy Tg and core guaranteed temperature before it starts to get soft or to thermoform.

[rxcomposite]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

I can use any core at all, so long as it's one of the majors. The design uses Airex, Divinycell or Core Cell (Kledgecell too, I think). They're all good, according to the designer.

Did the designer told you to go direct core substitution by weight? I know you are using 5 and 6 lb/ft3 foam so;

A450@5.1 lb/ft3=H80@ 5 lb/ft3
A550@6.4 lb/ft3=H100@ 6.2 lb/ft3

Looking at shear strength by arranging the foam according to shear specific strength, the H series is far stronger and appears at the top end of the scale.

Impact resistance is another story. Generally, the Balsa and Divinycell (group 1) are grouped together and the Corecell and Airex (group 2). Group 1 is on the poor end of impact resistance.

Attached comparison table.

[rberrey]

You can use any core you want was my point , this is a buyers market. Thats why I,m stocking up on everything I can before I start the build, it will also make the build go faster with all material on hand.There is a site starts with (N) that sales core cell that advertises the products online on their site, but when you call or email they dont seem to know where you got the price from. They acted a bit rude the last time I talked with them and directed them to the core cell priceing on their own site. They were going to get back to me, I bought H80 from one of the many polite suppliers. After you buy your foam make sure you call your rude supplier get him to price a cheep item, and tell him in a nice way what a good deal you got on your foam, and have a happy new year. Take a day off and have a merry Christmas. rick

[CatBuilder]

Wow, RX... you have the BEST material. Where do you find this stuff??!? That graph is priceless. Thank you for taking the time to put it up. It helped me make the right decision on the cores. I'll share that decision with you guys in January, after my order goes through, in case the jerkbags are reading this thread.

Rick: I agree fully. I'm doing a modified version of what you're talking about. Woke up with a good strategy this AM. Day off for Christmas?!? Not me! In all seriousness, I'm 1200 miles away from my wife, friends and family building a boat. Because of that, I am taking no days off until she's launched. Well... except maybe a "freak out" day or two when I go crazy and need to get away from the project. I'm going for the world record... ha ha ha