Cost of Titanium

These pictures are an example of weight saving for my trailer boat designs, the suspension I manufactured the torsion bar and arm, axle including hubs and stubs from Gr 5 titanium, the outer casings for the rubbers cords are milled from aluminium block that allows the pressure of the rubber cords to lock it together, no pins, screws or bolts are needed
Because of the strength and flexibility I managed to scallop the structures to make even lighter like the aeroplane seats, for example I scalloped the axles and inserted a grease nipples that a far superior than bearing buddies also the torsions bar I casted a hole in the centre, over all I reduced the weight over 60% and designed the torsion arm with a rib structures, the plus is its water proof as I made the wheel bearings from 440c stainless steel.
The rubber cords are DIY replaceable at a cost of $2 a cord, this has never been done before and was a main problem with torsions such as the rubber cords loses their flex over time.
This titanium proto type design is made for the future Myark amphibious folding trailer pontoons, for example the weight in folded trailer form is 400kg, but will float a 3000 kg load and will be priced under $10.000 making most vehicles amphibious which may be the future with global warming when the sea rises such as Florida or the Mississippi floods again let alone a good recreational boat that stores in minimum space.

The draw bar pictured has a swivel affect with main pin is also titanium

 

Glad someone else said what I thought.

 

"I wonder if Airbus knows about the Al-Li cracking issues? "



An estimated 59 metric tons (130,000 pounds) are used in the Boeing 777, 45 in the Boeing 747, 18 in the Boeing 737, 32 in the Airbus A340, 18 in the Airbus A330, and 12 in the Airbus A320. The Airbus A380 may use 77 metric tons, including about 11 tons in the engines. In engine applications, titanium is used for rotors, compressor blades, hydraulic system components, and nacelles. The titanium 6AL-4V alloy accounts for almost 50% of all alloys used in aircraft applications.

 

My company designs and has built for us (in the US) some fairly large underwater appendages using 6Al 4V titanium alloy. It is a wonderful material to design with for marine applications. We've had zero galvanic issues with installations on steel and aluminum hulls.

In the picture below is a shipset of titanium control surfaces..two 2-square-meter stabilizer foils and two 3-quare-meter transom trim tabs.

In the other...a 3.75-square-meter T-foil assembly

 

Can you tell use the alloy you use?
Do you know the $/# for the alloy you specify?

There is no doubt it is a very good material, and regarding my comments - aircraft usage has very little to do with boats, IMHO.

 

We use 6Al-4V for plate, large shafts and billets, and 6Al-4V(ELI) for control rods, pins and mounting studs.

The price per pound is all over the map, depending on raw material size, and to further cloud that up, nearly all of the plate parts are purchased from the various Ti vendors as pre-cut shapes (waterjet). Anything between $15 and $30 a pound probably covers the range we deal with.

For us, the use of titanium is driven by hydrodynamic performance requirements and total life costs; the ultimate high-performance (thin section) foils can only be engineered in steel or titanium. The weight savings and corrosion resistance of titanium then comes in to play to make it a better choice if total life-cycle costs are taken in to consideration (and the ship service life is defined to be a fairly long period..20 years for example). But there are plenty of vessels operating with steel foils too...the titanium solution is not always the choice made..

 

Well if you are using the 6-4 ELI then we use the same thing. Guess I was wrong about things being very different.

 

A perfect environment for titanium to perform is in seawater. Titanium it at it's best in seawater due to the corrosion resistance of the metal. Crevice corrosion, pitting, stress corrosion cracking, or microbiologically influenced corrosion in seawater are not issues when titanium is the material of choice.

Marine applications of titanium include:
•ship propellers
•shipboard heat exchangers
•piping systems
•ballast systems
•waste systems
•tidal zone protection
•shipboard hardware
•tie-downs

Titanium is not just used on major commercial/military ships, but it is found in various applications on fishing boats, deep sea submersibles and submarines. Titanium has been designed into marine applications when engineers are looking for low maintenance costs and reduced fuel consumption (due to weight reduction), to go along with the outstanding metallurgical properties associated with the metal.

 

Another post from dr google.

 

Here are a some old multi-tool examples for marine use I manufactured.
I find to machine was relatively easy, at the moment I am preparing ongoing new design titanium multi-tool and titanium product suited for boating.

 

In spite of being Dr Google, he is still right.
Just depends upon the cost and the specific application.
I won't be spending that money any time soon.

 

Of course he is. Can hardly be wrong pasting articles from other sites.

 

Myark is quoting Titanium Industries, Inc. http://titanium.com/
He should cite his source.

There was a thread on Titanium in 2012 that should be referenced
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/titanium-vs-other-metals-43397.html
If I remember, Stumble (Greg) worked for a Titanium company.

 

Designing and manufacturing from titanium is a satisfying interest, especially when I life in Thailand totally enjoying my every day and now again I will travel back to my other home in China and design and manufacture titanium as in a hobby and at the same time make a good income.
A picture below of a small package of Titanium product I sold last week was enough profit to live in Thailand like a king for a month.

 

I am not sure how I missed this thread when it was current. But I fell something serious is missing that needs to be considered.

Yes I did work for a titanium company, and am happy to comment on specific issues if anyone has questions. Though I am far from an expert.

First is that when comparing the price of a titanium part versus a steel part the price/lb is a poor measure. Titanium is roughly half the weigh of steel, so if a steel part requires 20lbs of metal the titanium part will only require 10lbs. Obviously then this reduces the effective cost of a titanium part by about 50% (when considering material cost alone).

Second when looking at titanium prices there are only really three grades worth considering for boat building. G2 which is a commercially pure material is almost identacle to 316 stainless in material properties except weight. G5 (6al4v) which is the most common of the aerospace alloys, and has a UTS on par with high end steel but a much higher yield strength. And finally G9 which is an alloy specifically used for pipes and tubes. Not that the other alloys don't have advantages, but anything else is used in such low quantity the price goes up radically for minimal gains.

From a practical marine standpoint all the alloys are corrosion immune, so the only controlling factor is price and strength. G2 is the cheapest then G5/9 are about the same, though used differently so it's hard to get a direct comparison.

Third is that a titanium part can almost always be designed to be stronger, AND far smaller. If nothing else you can completely eliminate the corrosion allowance since in the marine environment titanium simply doesn't corrode.

so how does this work out in end products... It has been a while so I am working off the top of my head. But as I remember it we were selling finished life line stantions in G9 for about $50 a pop. Actually less than a Lewmar 316 part, and a little more than Gurhauer ones.

#10 G5 locknuts and fasteners we were bulk selling for about the price Fastenal was charging for small orders of 304 stainless.

A investment cast G2 through hull fitting was about 20% more as an OEM part than a major bronze fitting retail.

Sure these prices all show a premium over traditional materials, but it is a premium with a substantial difference. Practical immunity to all forms of corrosion, including galvanic attack, Lighter weight, and no fatigue limit. All make a pretty convincing argument that titanium is quickly going to supplant bronze and stainless for many marine applications in the near future.


As for why Ti is so expensive in the first place... In large part it has to do with strategic materials monopoly the US government forced during the Cold War by forcing any company that did business with the Governement to buy US sources material it allowed the two US producers to charge outrageous prices and defer investment in new refinery processes.

Since the removal of titanium from this list, the world wide moment towards a refining process called the Krull process has shifted Ti processing from a batch job to industrial scale refining dramatically dropping material costs. As larger refineries come on line this price will continue to drop. The long term outlook on titanium costs predicts raw material costs in line with Monel or 316L stainless in another decade.