Best domestic lumber for boats?

[putz]

Is there a hands down best domestic wood species that outperforms the rest (other than cedar)? All the info I find is for each species and in completely different publications. Is there anywhere that compares them all side by side with decay resistance, strength, weight, and cost? As well as east coast vs. west.

My options at the OH mill so far have been: sassafras, black locust, ash, white oak, and a number of other species. I asked about osage orange and he said he'd never cut one down but he knew of a few he could get.

I'm trying to find out what would be the best wood for the price. The mill is in OH and I just moved to WA, so it costs another $1 per ft to ship it.

The sawyer has sassafras kiln dried for $1 bf, ash and locust are in the $0.80-$1 range, and I'd imagine the osage orange would be the same if he gets them for me.

Do any east coast woods stack up to cedar? Cedar is quite expensive, so if sassafras or any others compare I can save a good bit of money.

Thanks.

[Bergalia]

Hey Putz - you don't say what the timber will be used for: Keel, frame, ribs, or planking? Horses for courses. Not sure if it's available in WA - but sniff around for hybrid larch (often plantation grown) - good for planking. Straight grained and reasonably rot-proof. Oak for frames and knees etc.

[putz]

I was thinking mainly for planking and anything that might be wet all or part of the time. I plan to epoxy over and varnish.

I was hoping maybe I could find 1 wood to use for just about everything. I also got some old growth white oak for $0.50 bf off a barn I'm just out of ideas for what species to try to find.

[Bergalia]

Hi again Putz. Not too familiar with white oak. The only oaks I've used were in Europe and they proved short-grained, tough and heavy - though lasted 'forever' even when burned. Again unsure of your 'situation' - but my 'hobby' is to wander around builders/demolition yards looking for reclaimed timber from houses, offices etc. Floorboards - well seasoned with foot traffic and spilled coffee, can clean up beautifully for boat building. Again it's 'sod's choice' what they have in stock. And often cheaper if you tidy (remove nails, screws, etc) yourself. Good luck. remember patience is often well rewarded.

[alan white]

One wood that's good for frames and planks is mahogany, but you said domestic, so southern yellow pine is pretty good all around. Still, white oak is a fabulous framing wood, and cedar (port orford, eastern white, atlantic white, and western red) are all good planking woods. With white oak, fasteners won't let go----- the screw will break first. But white oak is heavy and checks a bit over time. Better to make use of a few hundred years of trial and error and frame with white oak, plank with cedar. Cedar weighs but 55% or so of the oak. When you fair the hull, cedar will sand easily. Neither woods rot very easily, hence the two combines make for a long-lasting, strong and light hull.

Alan

[TerryKing]

Originally Posted by putz

Is there a hands down best domestic wood species that outperforms the rest (other than cedar)? All the info I find is for each species and in completely different publications. Is there anywhere that compares them all side by side with decay resistance, strength, weight, and cost? As well as east coast vs. west. (snip)...

The Wiki has a materials page:
http://www.boatdesign.net/wiki/MaterialsForBoatbuilding
...and that shows where to get the US Forest Service WOOD HANDBOOK which does compare many woods... Look here:
http://www.boatdesign.net/wiki/Mater...od_Handbook.22

[Gilbert]

Both Douglas Fir and Alaska Yellow Cedar have been used for every part on boats. Guards, grounding shoe and maybe rail caps are parts where hardwoods would be preferred. These would be best for sawn frame construction. I would be reluctant to use Douglas Fir that had less than about 16 growth rings per inch because of stability problems in conventional construction, but if sealed with epoxy less may very well be ok. White oak is suitable for every piece in a boat. Oregon white oak is outstanding for bent frames but you must grade it strictly since it is prone to pin knots and small checks or shake. Red cedar is best for smaller boats but not so suitable for large ones in conventional construction because of it's softness, but again, being sealed in epoxy may give it better suitability for larger boats especially if protected by an outer veneer of denser wood or glass sheathing. Port Orford Cedar is as good as Alaska Yellow but I don't know where you would find enough of it to build a boat of any size.

[longliner45]

alaskan yellow ceder is either extint or endangerd,,,,,

[Guest-3-12-09-9-21]

I had the pleasure of owning and living on a 57' wooden boat (built in early 1900s) for a while. It had oak frames and CVG fir planking. If I had it to do over again I believe I would choose ribs and planking made of steel.

Depending on where you are in Washington (from Port Angeles myself) I'd give Edensaw woods a call - they used to have a real helpful person behind the phone: Port Townsend - Edensaw Woods, 211 Seton Rd, 98368 206/385 7878, 800/745 3336

There used to be Flounder Bay in anacortes, but I don 't know if they are still around up there or not. They had a good supply of different kinds of cedar, etc. They also had some great boat kits.

Good luck on the project!
--Chuck

[nero]

Sassafras is excellent for planking. (currently scouting for 1000 to 1500 bdft or logs.) If you can find it quarter-sawn and it is air dryed. It dries down very fast. Yellow cypress is what I am using to plank my boat hulls with. Finding quarter sawn is tough to do. It also has a big range in density.

Black Locust is an excellent hardwood for keels and structural elements. Bonds well with epoxy.

Osage Oragne (hedge) Is actually one of 13 species of this wood. It is the only one that grows in the US. The others are tropical trees. I have a couple thousand board foot that I cut 6 or so years ago. It is difficult to get straight grain because of the way the tree twists and turns as it grows. It is difficult to bond succesfully. It planes poorly, but it cuts and sands beautifuly. PM me if you want a sample. I have made several cooking spoons and spatulas with it. They last forever. I have also made a piece of furniture with it. I put a few pieces of it in my boat just for show. There are several 6 to 8 ft quarter sawn 4/4 to 6/4 pieces that have little to no grain runout. They are surfaced all 4 sides so what you see is what you get. O.O. can be very expensive wood.

[putz]

Thanks Nero.

I haven't established relationships with the local quartersaw mill. There is one I just haven't been able to go out there and get prices for sawing smaller logs.

I never knew about hedge apple (osage orange) until a couple months ago. I asked the amish sawyer I use if he had any and he said he's never marked a single tree, though he comes across it. He said he would start marking them with the rest of the woods he cuts.

His upper cherry is $2 bf so I can't imagine osage being anywhere near that.

I actually got a piece from a millwork guy who was charging $3 bf for it. I think it looks gorgeous with the orange hologram like look. I had no idea it was sought after for boats.

[nero]

It is not used for boats. It is too heavy. But for decking on a monohull it would be fine ... once the yellow stain leached out a bit. I have seen it advertised on www.woodweb.com at $15.00 the bd ft.

Had a friend of the family who made knive handles out of it. He was paying an outragous price for it.

Most people burn it for firewood (hottest wood there is) or simply bulldoze the hedgerow and burn it. (complete waste and an ecological disaster ... payed for and promoted by one of the u.s. agencies)

The amish around here use it for flooring in their houses. Problem is selling to them is like selling to a jew ... or walmart.