Bambo fiber as a glass substute

[yellowcat]

ahh this is so true, when a client asks for a green building, i ask him to consider all that is involved, transportation, durability etc. Some like to brag about building green, leed etc. often it is easy to build with other's cash , without subsidies from gvts (that's us) it often doesn't happen. But in some cases, i was able to design with less toxic stuff in the materials.
What cools me up with the okoume both BS types , it is all that chemistry inside the panels. Hence the multiple glass (hybrid with other fibers) skins (2) system makes sence. It means 3d vacuum bagging, i should say 4 d, sides and up and down. Mild compression prepreg with a roller can be envisionned.The idea being to keep just enough epoxie to keep together the fibers in the proper orientation for all loads.
In multihulls and hovercrafts we are alergic about added weight. So everything has to have at least 2 uses. For example, shelving can be spare daggerboards or rudders.
Anchors and chain can play a role at cruising.
Nanno techno is showing promise for wood derived products, could we build a 60 ft cat with paper or cardboard ? we will see, the shop is under construction.
For the time being, i like this innegra stuff, sort of looking at a cat like an inflated dingy with a rigid bottom, food for thoughts.
happy new year.

[Boston]

I think the material is being used on surf boards because it is so flexible, which is a must in big waves. I'm not sure they use it simply because its green. Just that someone decided it was a selling point

[Silver Raven]

Originally Posted by Boston

I think the material is being used on surf boards because it is so flexible, which is a must in big waves. I'm not sure they use it simply because its green. Just that someone decided it was a selling point

Hey Boston. 'Flexible' is not economical in any way shape or form. 'Stiff' uses less fibres thus less resin thus less weight thus less labor thus less electricity thus less sandpaper thus - - bla bla bla - you get it. They have made for many years - combination materials in all weights of cloth. ie. 4, 6, 8 oz etc cloths with strands of kevlar - 4, 6, 8, etc (or 'S' or 'E' glass) then 1, 2 or more of carbon - repeat - repeat etc. in both warp & weft directions incl square weave & bi-axiel & twil. One could then use a 4 oz cloth rather than a 6 or 8 oz cloth for the same stiffness, inpact & tensile strength - thus reducing the amount of resin. Peanut butter Resin - 'twaddle' & bah humbug - get the best resin for both wet-out & strength (compatibility with the - fiber reinforcement - being used & the end product will be miles ahead in every measurable quantity & quality that you can test. Aside from that - I don't want the elephants eating my trimaran for a snack with their 'sundowner'

Have a great New Years night & a fab 2012. & watch those monkeys too, eh! Maybe toasted garlic peanuts without salt would put them off, eh??? james

[yellowcat]

Hi Boston,
In the surf forums, they discuss on innegra, they make boards with it.
The program is so important. Rigidity of the wet part of the hull is usually a better deal for performance for speed. If one looks for extreme lightness for a transportable cat on a plane for example, it can make sence. If you look at the specs comparisons on Innegra manufacturer in SC, it is very interesting. The internet drove me to interesting design pointers. It seems the armies are looking at this product but more important looking at more flexible skin designs. They seem to have injuries from speed impacts.
For very shallow navigation in the bahamas or in holland for examples, impact and puncture resistance is a large part of the program constraints. Not even mentionning piracy. The hovercraft and the multihull design philosophy is in many ways similar. Edge wear is one of them. I have inflated kayaks, not fast but i rool them up and carry them in planes, has pros and cons, but for chicks liking to sunbathe on a stable kayak, it is a winner, dont mind looking at them sunbathing ...
A space frame design criteria is not all that crazy for lightness vs stiffness, a innegra hybrid skin could make sence. check out www.distantshores.ca, they travel on shallows with a monohull, one can appreciate the sceneries and the advantages of a hovercat, props in the air makes sence .
Got to run, new year party on the horizon, got to hover around with my wife ...
cheers

[Boston]

this seems to be taking some pretty bizarre directions, you guys might want to read that link provided in the original post. The material is extremely expensive so really doesn't qualify as a viable alternative on anything of size, I just thought I'd present it to the group as a discussion point.

No idea where either of those last two posts were coming from but I suspect alcohol may have been involved it is new years weekend after all.

[yellowcat]

Bambo has been used extensively, years ago i attended a bambo convention in Costa Rica, it was not the new year so no alcohol was involved lol lol . Bambo ply was to be introducted into the market for the capacity the bambo has to regenerate. I would consider this instead of the okoume. Bambo is used in concrete for earth quake resistant panels in low cost housing. Ernest Hemingway's pool in Cuba was built out of concrete and bambo rebars. The early light bulbs used bambo. I did experiments with bambo strips , it has been hard to get consistency. Perhaps the new nanno techno in wood products will open a whole new range of oportunity for that type of grass and wood products in general, at least this the Domtar's goal. Will we see bambo paper with fiberglass mesh ?
For boating, expansion uniformity is a must and i would be carefull. But we see hybrids with synthetics too, so we have to give it a fair shake.
Looking back at ferro-cement monohulls built in the 70's, they were heavy indeed, but could it come back with lighter materials, i dont see it in multis yet.