Aluminium thikness...?

[Brock]

Hi everyone!!!

I plan to build a boat like this

http://instaboat.com/folding-boat.asp





with aluminium 5083, but I do not know how thick must be the sheet.
Is 1 mm enough or I needed thicker?

Thank you in advance!

[Wellydeckhand]

Nice boat I like it too...... but you gonna copy it?

[Brock]

It is patented, and i will not "copy" it exactly.

[Thunderhead19]

1mm is a bit light. Are you going to rivet, glue or weld it?

[Wellydeckhand]

I dont think there is a problem if your building a rigid version...... but the flexible install type would be outright copy..... I dont recomment on that.

WDH

[hansp77]

Seeing as though you raised the issue Welly,
I am interested. (hopefully you are too Brock)

Boat designers--
What exactly constitutes a copy, and or how much alteration of a design is required for it not to be a copy?
This could include, design, features, materials, size even???

In my dealing with image copyrights, we have always used the rather meaningless number that a design or image must be changed 10%.

I would think that there would be likely to be a distinction between the one-off home-builder and a rival competitor?

[Brock]

Originally Posted by Thunderhead19

1mm is a bit light. Are you going to rivet, glue or weld it?

I plan to use some hinges to connect /rivet/ the parts and then to cover the joints with rubber band.
I will use the boat mostly in dam lakes.

So what thickness should I use?

[Thunderhead19]

Okay, how about this. Use 1mm for the hull panels, but reinforce it with backing pads (say 1mm) everywhere there is something pressing against the hull side or bottom. These should extend beyond the "hard point" 4cm

[Ike]

I know the builder of these boats and if you want to avoid a law suit I would change it a lot more than 10%.

[hansp77]

Hey Ike,
that was my question.
I don't mean to be laying out the best route for people who want to rip off others designs,
but,
legally, where does inspiration end and copying begin.
Is it, as I hinted with graphics and the 10%, a rather vague and blurry line?
Anyway, if brock is doing what it appears he might be doing, just building A boat, then it would have to be unlikely that anyone would want to sue him for it.
If he was going to make a business out of it, then that would be different entirely.

[Ike]

The only law covering this except normal copyright and patent laws, is the Vessel Hull Design Protection Act of 1998 (US only) http://www.copyright.gov/vessels/. It doesn't have a lot of teeth but a few cases of blatent copying have been prosecuted using this law. Splashing, making a mold from a existing hull, is quite common and although unethical and probably illegal, is pretty rampant in the industry. I once when into a bass boat manufacturer's shop and he showed me the new hull he was making a mold for. You could still see the other manufacturer's name on the boat he was using to make the mold. He didn't seem the least bit bothered by the fact he was stealing someone elses design.

Anyway I was mistaken about the above boat. It is made by someone other than who I was thinking of, who makes a very very similar boat. The person I was thinking of very agressively protects his patents and copyrights no matter the cost.

I suppose if someone is making their own boat for their own use and never intends to sell it, then they would probably be able to do it without any repercushions from the manufacturer. However the manufacturer probably could do that and win but at what cost? Lawyers and law suits aren't cheap and most small boat companies just don't have the deep pockets!

If someone is making them to sell, well that's clearly copying someone else's design for profit and they would have a good case.

There have been some very notable cases. Donzi went after someone for copying one of their designs and won. Boston Whaler did the same and lost. As you say it's a fine line. I know that Viking goes after anybody who even uses the name Viking in relation to a boat. It is very common to have many boat companies with similar names. For instance Galaxy (North Carolina, out of business), Galaxie of Texas, and Galaxy of California. The words Classic and Fiberglass are used in Hundreds of boat company names. (by the way there are about 4700 boat companies in the US and 700 or so in Canada so it's pretty hard not to get duplication) Anyway, The law does exist and although not many have used it it has been successfully used to pursue copiers who are doing it for a profit.

The other issue is, of course, how unique is the design. If it's been around for years, as in the Sea Sled (basically Boston Whaler's clasic hull) then it's pretty hard to claim you invented it. If it's truly unique, such as the Instaboat, well then they might have a claim.

It's all very murky and I'm not a lawyer, but I've been peripherally involved with these issue over the years.

[duluthboats]

The lightest aluminum canoe that I know uses about 1.5 mm. I doubt you could use thinner than that.

As for copyrights, its all about the courts and how much money you have to defend yourself.

Gary

[SeaSpark]

The idea of folding boats is not new, how much inspiration you think instaboats and bananaboat exchanged?

[SheetWise]

Lewis and Clark carried folding boats -- so as SeaSpark says, the idea is not new.

One of the (main) questions a court will have in copyright violation of a design is whether or not they believe the accused party could have come upon the design independently. In other words -- is it reasonable to believe that nothing was stolen, and that both parties came upon the design independently.

One of the best defenses against copyright violation is a claim by the accused that they were not even aware of the allegedly violated design. One of the best arguments for the plaintiff is proof that the accused has seen and was aware of the plaintiffs design. This is the main reason for NDA's, and the reason many designers refuse to look at other designers work (on the record).

Clearly, if you plan to use as a defense that the work product is a result of "independent" inspiration -- this (public) forum, and this thread in particular, are not going to serve your position well.

Best to PM questions on copyright.

[Wellydeckhand]

Yes, but telling a forum you gonna copy 90% of the posted design and turn out to be other manufacturer finished product is sucidal in a way.

If the manufacturer dont sue , you still have hundreds of people reading this thread ....... your final result will be mark as a copy unless you develope and add special function or curve to it.

WDH