600 GSM Biaxial Fiberglass

Discussion in 'Materials' started by Meanz Beanz, Jun 9, 2008.

  1. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,280
    Likes: 33, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 585
    Location: Lower East ?

    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Hey Jeff,

    Tony at themultihull.com has done it and reckons you don't need stringers plus I am going heavier on the bottom than he went. I guess that's an experiment.... they can always be added.

    Hey Brian,

    Nah... this is only a few hundred bucks worth of stuff, its as much to play with the material as it is to solve the problem. I have watched impact tests on the 15mm Polycore and 600 gsm Bi Ax, they are quite impressive. I have also heard stories of truck being driven over sample panels... it has me intrigued. The edge treatment is the biggest bug bear with the stuff as far as I am aware... cost wise it compares with good quality ply but the weight savings are big, possibly down to a third of the current set up. Given the SW24 was designed for tramps and not hard decks this is a good thing!

    The Nupol guy's offered me 600gsm Double Bias as well... better... worse???

    Cheers
    MBz
     
  2. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,280
    Likes: 33, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 585
    Location: Lower East ?

    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    I should cost it in foam... I will need stringers then, I think! What about impact resistance? What about foam edges just to form the tapers?
     
  3. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 6,818
    Likes: 121, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1882
    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    Just a stupid thought from a know nothing (with regard to what you are trying), I gather there is some concern between the strength of the edges to hold the whole in a "groove" in aluminium mast. Why not glass in edges of wood or plywood and give that to be threaded into the mast section and the glass onto the ply is bonding as it should and the lighter foam or whatever is in the middle where that stuff is good? Does that make sense?
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,280
    Likes: 33, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 585
    Location: Lower East ?

    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    The current ply is rotting so I don't want to go back there with timber. I might but, not convinced its a good idea yet. What I could do is use harwood (or???) as a denser solid core for the transition to the solid glass lip. That way it the glass will stick, I can get it say 10mm into the core and it ***should*** never see moisture as there will not be holes through that part. I will draw it up latter and post a pic... but for the moment I'm still trying to avoid timber.

    ?????????????????????????

    Nice pic you auld artist you :D
     
  5. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 6,818
    Likes: 121, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1882
    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    When I have a brain fart I need to get it down quick or I loose it...... try western Red cedar (wear a nose bag as the dust is not good for your health) a little carbon or something for impact/pressure load carrying and general epoxy (west system is it that is less toxic to breathe) and a bit of triaxial cloth to hold it and join it all together....
     
  6. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,280
    Likes: 33, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 585
    Location: Lower East ?

    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    That might be the go Mas, still light enough, does not have to be that impact resistant... I will draw later.

    Cheers
    MBz
     
  7. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,280
    Likes: 33, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 585
    Location: Lower East ?

    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Plan B

    Whaddya reckon?
     

    Attached Files:

  8. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 2,614
    Likes: 136, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1650
    Location: Finland/Norway

    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Nice'n solid :D I'd make the upper edges of the core (cedar edge) a bit tapered too, maybe 1/3 of the edge thickness, to carry loads evenly to both sides of the sandwich..
    Does that make sense?
     
  9. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,280
    Likes: 33, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 585
    Location: Lower East ?

    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Yeah it makes sense, I'm trying for a flat surface on top to fit carpet. You think its a must?
     
  10. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 6,818
    Likes: 121, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1882
    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    Good one Heinz, but, - - - don't use the chopper use woven - less epoxy more fibre = better strength - You will get to much epoxy with chopped strand and take the join further out for better load distribution & bonding, then cover with peel-ply and squeeze it with a little steel wheeled roller to force out all air bubbles.

    I have seen it done and I would strongly suggest you seek professional advice too

    --------------------------- With a v to the wood and glue/bog stuff to fill the holes
    . . . . . . . . . < . . . . . . . . .then clamps to squeeze it all together whilst laying the
    ___________________ . . .strips of cloth to finish the whole join and that fiddley bit in a mould using only wet cloth to make it strong ...
     
  11. AndrewK
    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 490
    Likes: 51, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 344
    Location: Australia

    AndrewK Senior Member

    Meanz Beanz

    1. to determening laminate thickness in (mm) for your typical stitched fabric multiply the weight of your glass in kg/m2 by 1.2 for hand laminates and by 0.9 if using 80+% vacuum.

    2. I am guessing that the old ply decks are lashed in place, if so then an option for you is to bond a round section (conduit, aluminium tube, glass rod) to the perimeter of the core and glass over. The 600g glass (DB would be better) will easily go around the 15mm diam edges. Then simply lash through this reinforced edge to the existing points on the beams and hull sides.

    Cheers
    Andrew
     
  12. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,280
    Likes: 33, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 585
    Location: Lower East ?

    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Hey Andrew,

    They are screwed into the top of the old tramp bolt rope tracks. That's the normal "solution" for a Seawind 24. The tracks themselves are a drainage problem so they are going and are to be replaced with brackets mounted at about 500mm centers.

    Thanks for the formula... so about .72 mm is around the mark for 600 gsm hand laid? That would be good... cheers!
     
  13. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 2,440
    Likes: 179, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 871
    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    Meanz, Masalai is correct if using epoxy resin, however as your using poly & seeking thickness at the perimeter choppy is a pretty good way to get it especially if sandwiced between your stitched fabric layers at lower cost in resin compared to epoxy, if you tear the chop on one edge & stagger the edges it will kinda blend & taper into the main laminate nicely. One issue that Masalai has touched on is the use of epoxy, even though its more expensive per liter/kilo, an epoxy job often can come out the same cost & lighter than the poly job as it can be constructed with no chop & therefore less resin, chopstrand mat is a requirement for poly lamination to a core of stitched or woven fabric particularily over 400gsm, the beauty of poly/styrenated resins is for gelcoat finish & also the speed of process. All the best from Jeff.:)
     
  14. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,280
    Likes: 33, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 585
    Location: Lower East ?

    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Mas, I live in Couta Boat country, the pros down here consider kauri and copper composite construction, they get a nervous tick when they try and say fibe...fiber...fibergl....

    Must try and find some one building modern boats!
     

  15. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,280
    Likes: 33, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 585
    Location: Lower East ?

    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Hi Jeff,

    Are you saying that I can't laminate the 600gsm onto the polycore with polyester without a layer of chop? Do I understand that right? I was going for polyester to keep the cost reasonable but will happily use epoxy if there is no real saving or if I have to use a whole bunch of chop to make it work.

    Cheers
    Mbz
     
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. LeeV
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,937
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.