2 part poly paint - is it safe to breathe the fumes

[the1much]

im gonna try 1 day,,,,,once i think my arm can stay working the whole time,,im gonna give someone a freebie paint job just to try it hehe

[Kaptin-Jer]

4" Foam Roller, -change every 20 min., 2" China bristle brush - keep it dry(no matter how big the project) roll 8" of coating, tip in one direction (down) Interlux is NOT the DIY choice. Awl Grip is. Reduce to about 30% not the recommended 20%. put on 4 coats (min.) sand with 325 between each.

[wet-foot]

I ordered a badger hair brush with the 2 part polyurethane. What is the best way to preserve the brush after tipping? Hope it's not a throw-away!!!!!!!

[the1much]

clean it,,clean it,,,clean it,,,,spin it dry,,,wrap a clean rag around it,,,and lay it in a safe place,,,Kapt., and L.L. gonna be surprised i knew that hehehe
but he's got things he's dealing with right nows,,and may be a while before he answers,,but,,i think im pretty much right,,hehe

[Landlubber]

the1much,
Man, you are something special, who would have ever thought that you could write and clean a brush? I am soooo proud.

(one little tip).....drill a hole in the brush handle about 1" above the bristles, big enough to shove a nail through, and let the brush sit on that in a jar of thinner to keep it nice and soluable, don't allow the thinner to be on the metal though. The brush will self clean and be beautiful to use next time. I have badger brushes that are 25 years old, only use them for top coats.
Before doing the final top coat, always use a tack cloth too, it makes a real difference.

now the 1much, if you could have a beer, paint and write at the same time, I reckon you could get a real following, sort of like the "Hairry Chrishners" of he 60's.

[the1much]

that sounds like too Much work,,hehe,,think i'll jus stick with my kids thinking im "special",,,,,,,but they have a funny smile on their face when they say "your special dad",,,hehe and thats a nice tip bout the hole..i'll try to remember,,hehe

[TripleCrownNC]

Landlubber, how long you leave the brush in the thinner? My last go round with Awlgrip I used a fine bristle brush from Lowes that was about $5 and it seemed to do just fine. Threw it out.

I ruined 2 badger hair brushes right to start with, didn't seem possible to get it 'new' clean once used.

Hey Jim ready to start up again? Looking like this weekend! Get ya rest.hehe

[Landlubber]

I leave them in there for about a week, but they get used again, so it is not a long time. If you were going to leave them for "ever", then I would suggest that you still leave them in for the week, then take the brush out, wash it in soapy water, hang off the line, via the hole to dry, and then store with a cloth wrapped around the bristles to keep them in their nice shovel point.

[wet-foot]

when you leave the brush suspended in thinner does all the paint sludge settle to the bottom leaving the thinner clear? I know this works well with enamel paint.

[the1much]

same thing goes for this too,,,,but,,the "thinner" left over is only bout half as strong as it was originally.

[Jimbo1490]

Originally Posted by lazeyjack

most contain isocyonates, they will damage your lungs forever, any mask cant filter out isocyonates, including carbon filters

This is wrong. While some individuals are allergically sensitive to isocyanates, most are not. But those allergic individuals MUST NEVER even breathe a whiff of the stuff or they will go into PULMONARY EDEMA and DIE in a few minutes Calling 911 won't even help; they will not arrive in time.

But this only applies to a very small segment of the population. Those with a history of asthma and allergies should be especially wary.

Allergic sensitization can develop over the years through chronic careless exposures. You've probably heard of this with epoxies, and it's true for isocyanates as well. So even if you're not one of those allergic individuals, don't push your luck; wear a mask!

As for charcoal masks not working for isocyanates, this is just not true! They work fine! It's just that they cannot be certified or approved as OK for use with isocyanates, and the manufacturers can only advertise capabilities that are approved by various gov't agencies like NIOSH and OSHA. The mask manufacturers are not allowed to tell you that they work; in fact they are required to tell you that they don't work even though they actually do work

The reason they cannot be approved for iso has to do with the details of the certification rules. A mask gets certified for each chemical individually. To say its approved for toluene or any other organic solvent, it gets tested with that solvent ONLY. One of the test criteria is that the solvent must have 'warning' properties, which means it has to stink. That way if your mask is not properly fitted, you smell the solvent which alerts you to either adjust your mask or leave the contaminated area.

But there's just one little problem; isocyanate has NO SMELL, therefore no warning properties. SO there's NO WAY a mask can be can be gov't certified for it, no matter how well the mask purifies. It's just an artifact of the certification rules!

But paint ALWAYS has other solvents mixed in with the isocyanates, so if you mask leaks you'll be able to smell the other stuff and know to fix your mask or get the hell out!

Charcoal masks successfully filter out Sarin, Soman Tabun and several other hideously poisonous chemicals that are classed as IDLH (Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health) down to a few PPM. Isocyanates used in paint are not classed IDLH even at many times those concentrations. It's about impossible to create an IDLH environment with paint fumes indoors, let alone outdoors.

No charcoal mask can be certified by a gov't industrial safety organization for IDLH conditions even though the armed forces of the world have been using charcoal masks to preserve life in these environments for nearly a century now. The government says you have to use a supplied-air mask for IDLH environments. The government says you have to use a supplied-air mask for isocyanate cause it has no smell.

I'm not criticizing the rules, just shining a light on the details.

Jimbo

[Landlubber]

Thanks for that Jimbo, well done mate.

i use a Sundstrom mask, single filter cartridge, but stack on a prefilter, carbon filter and dust filter and cannot smell anything at all when spraying two packs, it is really very good, and fits well also, pity they cost $100 each in Australia! Such is life

[fiberglass jack]

Well I heard someting new this week, one of my apprentances who is going to painting school just informed me that you can wear all the half masks you like and it wont protect you from iso the thing is it will absorb into you system just as fast through the eyes and skin. you must wear a full mask with fresh air sulply and a full protective paint suit also boot covers as well.
its not as bad if you put the crap on with a brush as the stuff wont be as airourne but if you can smell it your breathing it in.

[the1much]

it does soak into ya skin,,,eyes really fast,,,,,is like poly resin,,,you can wear all the cartridges you want,,,but ya still end up with drool and snot filling your mask,,hehe

[Jimbo1490]

Originally Posted by the1much

it does soak into ya skin,,,eyes really fast,,,,,is like poly resin,,,you can wear all the cartridges you want,,,but ya still end up with drool and snot filling your mask,,hehe

Much has brought up an important point about ISO exposure that everybody seems to overlook. The skin and eyes are actually more important routes of chronic exposure than the lungs. There are a couple of reasons for this. One has to do with the phenomena of 'free' vs 'captured' isocyanate. Once you mix paint ant the catalyst and then let it stand a few minutes, virtually all of the isocyanate is bound up with the paint resin, and is no longer available to react with other chemicals. IOW, it's a lot less dangerous. This is the case while your are spraying; it's already mixed. So when the ISO is most dangerous is when you are mixing and pouring the catalyst! And I bet nobody bothers to wear a mask at those times. And have you ever got a drop of catalyst on your skin? That's a lot worse than breathing the mixed paint. And the free iso fumes are strongly attracted to the water which coats your eyes at all times, meaning to be really safe, you should wear goggles when pouring the catalyst.

I learned all this stuff from a video that House of Kolor put out a few years ago.

Jimbo