My little piece of peace

You mean you saw Boat Fan

Nice going Masalai. Very proud of you. Pretty soon you can also be one of the snobs sitting with your stiff upper lip (I love that English expression !) on your boat and look down on everyone around you

Since you're not there, we don't have to call you things like 'sir' or 'your highness' yet and can give you a bit of grief.


I still wonder about those muffs by the washing machine Since you'll be on the water, just soak over the side at nights, rinse in the morning and hang up on the rigging to dry. The authorities or no one else can complain even if your underpants (or do you have panties ??) are drying out there, because they will be clean You can give one to someone and say - here, smell, see for yourself if they are clean

 

Well they are max draw at 4000 watts each and I hope he is NOT using the Re-Power controller???... or is he dragging the centreboard in the mud?...

 

He is using the Torqeedo controllers. From memory, speeds were around 5.8 knots on one motor, and 6.1 knots on two.

 

That seems about right, and within expectations, has he had a chat with Claude? there might be some kit that can monitor the system and fault-find... advertised output is 97kg static thrust (page 22 of Torqeedo_Cat_2009_metric_measures.pdf from the "Torqeedo Catalogue 2009" link http://www.torqeedoaustralia.com/Torqeedo_Australia/Reading.html

From an email sent by Claude http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJv-lGPXxHc - - Going like "School's Out" hehehe - - I think the skipper said 7.6 knots - so that is bloody good for the engines....

 

Mmmmm

Masalai

Congrats on turning dreams and talk into boat - its a rare thing.

I watched the video on Schools out and have a few concerns

The props on the motors look awfully small for a large 45 cat. Also the boat goes very slowly for no wind and a new clean light boat.

I know you are well advanced in your project and somewhat committed but having a few novel ideas in my 38ft cat build 10 years ago I think I understand your approach. In my build I had a pop top dodger, pivoting davits, retractable engine pod, tiller steering, no typical cabin, no normal cockpit and a wishbone, plus Setamar winches. I also have spent the last 6 years fiddling with my folding cat concept and 2 prototypes.

MOST of the novel ideas on Kankama were a failure - the davits, pop top, no cabin, no cockpit, tiller steering but especially the Setamars - they lasted about 2 weeks before they got the boot. BUT I LOVE LOVE LOVE my wishbone and rig and I like the Seawind type visibility Kankama has.

So I am not trying to rain on your parade

BUT those motors look way underdone. The great thing about an outboard type leg is that you can put a big prop on it. Those little things will wizz fine in flat water and no wind but my guess is that they will dig a nice hole in wind and chop and be next to useless. Also the cat makes a heap of noise which seems silly with an electric drive. The owner even talks of the buzzing bees. That is worse than a good outboard or diesel. If I videoed Kankama at 6 knots in a calm you would be hard pressed to hear the outboard.

My advice, and it may be too late, is to back off the theory and go and try and push Schools out into 20 knots and chop. One day you will be trying to get your nice new boat out of a choppy Airlie Beach northerly, after staying too long being sociable, and need the low down grunt to push into 20 knots at 6 knots minimum. Less than that and you will lose steerage way. Cats are not monos and need to go fast to stay safe into the wind. As I see it Schools out can barely do 6 knots in a calm which is unacceptable in my eyes. With such small props I can't see her making her way into any reasonable breeze in a choppy anchorage - that is dangerous.

I am a sailor. I don't motor into trades - I sail almost everywhere like you will do in a nice Oram BUT I needed to be able to motor into nasty stuff many times during our three years on the coast. We had one time at Pancake where the biggest thunderstorm of my life had us barely able to get our dragging anchor back on deck and reset. Friends stopped looking when the anenometer hit 55 knots. Queensland has heaps of thunderstorms like this in November to March.

I know you don't like petrol for your own reasons. I wouldn't have diesel for the smell and love the lightness and total economy of outboards and know that they would fit your boat fine. My appeal is for you to really absolutely triple super check these things before you part with your hard earned cash and time. Kankama went through $10 000 in two months as I sorted her out on her first cruise north. If your motors do not perform as they should then you could be up for a vastly more substantial bill and time problem when reality cuts through the sales hype. The Setamar guy was very quiet when I gave him feedback on his winches and he didn't offer to replace them - I had to pay for new Andersens.

You are treading a new path and although it is interesting I predict that some of your ideas will be deficient. I would urge you to only incorporate those ideas that have been proven by legends (like John Hitch) or are cheap to rectify (like swinging davits). The motors really worry me.

I built a boat next to a mate who was building his own Wilderness 13.2. We looked into electrics for our own boats so I think I get your ideas. But the weight and cost of cables, the legs, controllers and gen set was the same or more weight and cost than the normal set up. There did not seem to be any reason to go this way. His beautiful boat has Yanmar outboards and he likes them - I stayed with the single outboard on Kankama. Both of us are happy.

No offence meant by this - I doff my hat to you but as an inveterate tinker I urge caution to those who spend money treading such a new path. I have been hit on the head many times by reality and the pain is mournful.

cheers

Phil Thompson

 

got it wrong

Just rewatched the vid and heard 7.6 knots. So in flat water that seems okay. I would still like to see the engines be able to push the boat so that it starts to make some waves - that takes grunt. I still stand by my point on prop size and wind and chop - that is crucial - not calm motoring.

 

I think we met some time ago, and I am not finally committed in that the set-up is configured to accept other outboards, up to a pair of 40hp Yamaha 4 stroke outboards - I am not completely 'starkers' yet and appreciate your concern and interest... "School's Out" is a 44C stretched and heavier finish? - I am lighter and smaller 39C with mini-keels that add to buoyancy (and a bit of weight / drag) and expect 6+knots calm seas no wind on 1500 watts each, and around displacement speed with the full burst of twin 4000 watt motors giving 97kg static thrust equivalent...

Launch is around April 2010 and final decisions will be deferred 'till near then - committed to the genset, which means the batteries (but not so many) as well as inverter for domestic/galley - - the electric outboards will require the installation of 2000w solar-panels and at least 220 Ah of 48v batteries...

The other determinant is the price of gold, and how much the USA fucks around with upsetting the global economy... The US$ against the AU$ is more than 30% weaker since March 2009 and the price of gold has fallen in AU$ terms some 18% or so in the same time-span... all attributable to gross manipulation by the N.Y. consortium (FED and allies)... - - less money cheaper option...

 

Phew Mas, the whole forum was holding their breath A pair of 40's would be good.

 

What for? It is a sail boat and I will catch enough fish just trailing a lure whilst sailing... to eat - no sport involved... except in horizontal games/exercise...

 

April 10th,--Mmm thats 3 weeks to get here, sooo ,hmm I will be in the Champion bar then. What about you Fannie are you going to leave Saffa before you die.

 

Torqeedos are rather nice if you can afford the whole setup that goes with it, watched the Schools Out video, looks good.

Nothing wrong with 2x torqeedos and 1x 20 hp fourstroke as backup ????

 

No there isn't. The problem is when the wind is up and you cannot use the sails for some reason then the motor's (and batteries) is supposed to get you there.

The force of the wind on a surface at 20kts ~ 7.32kg/m2. Now calculate the area above the waterline and see what the force is the motor must be able to overcome to turn the boat.

I saw a video in a harbour of the wind pushing some boats out of control and into a wall, those with sails couldn't use them and most were unable to turn the boats into the wind. Not a pleasant experience I bet. There was a dinghy that looked like it was air borne the way it went and the skipper had no control over where he was going, sail or no sail.

Personally on Mas's size boat 2 x 40's at the least, but that's just me. You can put a LOT of fuel in for the price of the batteries alone never mind the drives. If it's something you 'wanna have' then fine, nice for quiet cruising but I won't kick the petrol motors just yet. They can run 24/7 if required with a lot more torque.

Also from experience I can tell you the electric trolling motors we use are nice and they can take you places, as long as it's not in bad weather. We can troll all day long with them. If the wind is up however and you try your luck going up wind you quickly resort to the iron sails.

 

No sport involved ? You are going to net your fish ! Now that is unsporty

 

well well - cant miss a good party hey

so i consulted my crystal ball and other geeky stuff

6800 nm @ 120 nm / day = 57 days @ 3 litres of drinking water / day = 171 litres

Great scott old chap the micro carries 200 l as ballast = could be done i'll say i'll say

wonder what the ball and chain would have to say

downhill there - container back
jeeeha time to vist Mas and WW

damn wouldnt it be fun - sorry what did you say about alzheimers - **** i forgot

sorry cant load ocean currents 2.8 mb png max = 2mb
anyway also "downhill"

 

Ahummmmm Manie, are you dyslectic too? the route (on the globe image) you did is OK for Durban to Brisbane via the cold weather... if you go a bit north in Summer, then it is a broad reach with the SE trades (according to your "winds globe", to arrive off NW cape in Western Australia just as the NE trades kick in for the southern winter and across the "top end" thence down the inside of the Great Barrier Reef - (Best to clear customs/immigration Geraldton / Dampier region) and be in Brisbane in time for my launch.... - Better get a move on... The Captain Jean Louis Bernicot chart shows a better route for the Durban/Dampier run... stops at Madagascar to see if the animals from the NY Central Park zoo are OK (the movie animation), thence to Mauritius, Cocos (in case the Australian Govt wants to "Guantanimo" you as illegal immigrants, thence to Dampier for the final leg following the coast...

Fanie, if the worst comes to pass, 15hp 4 stroke hi-thrust pair would be adequate, but if Manie comes for the launch then I may have to get bigger engines to tow Manies' boat as the "tender"... when we head up to the Louisades (October-November to miss the "Cyclone season" in Queensland), across to Solomon Islands to find a bit of gold (Why the islands were named as such...), sit out the summer season there, thence up to invade "Frosty land"... Of course all this is subject to change without notice as "following ones nose & mood" is an indefinable path....