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#78
09-20-2002, 10:39 AM
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#79
02-03-2004, 01:45 PM
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| water cooling system in slow speed deisel engine [i would like to know the design of water cooling system in slow speed deisel engine(15000kw) |
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#80
07-02-2004, 04:54 PM
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| Anybody still here? Ooo M = T ? , not really ! And where are we suppose to leave this feedback, ah I see ! The Eq doesnt take long to ponder. The boat motors interest brought me here. Remember that Einstein said " Time is a figment of our imagination !" And it is so true. He was the first to write about Galactic Space. All things in the universe are moving. Huge Planets and micro-scopic gases just swirling around with each other like a big pool of water carrying stuff with it, except theres no final pool, its like a perpetual ring at the water park, just going around and around covering there old footprints. Kinda like a guy trapped on a small island -he he ! But this parade of stars and planets is the mass. You see, that was Einsteins Mass. Overtime it moves. Yep. Given no time ( which doesnt really exist) the mass wouldnt move. Movement transfers energy ! Movement does not create energy. Its movement over time transfering the energy. The energy does not come from the Time, it comes from the movement of mass. So no, T does not equal M, regardless of the equation. You can have mass without the time, but you cant have energy without Time. Quote:
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#81
09-29-2004, 06:58 PM
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| I take it all this was a lot of hot then. There was a post around 7/2002 that said a product would be coming to market in a year. I haven't seen it. I guess we can file this with the 300mpg carburetors and other myths and legends. Maybe pipe dream is a better term. I haven't tried to research the patent given but suspect it is a hoax or doesn't generate enough energy to be useful. |
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#82
11-17-2004, 09:04 PM
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| Need Design For 40 Foot Fishing Boat I Need A Hull Design For 40 Foot Fiberglass Fishing Boat |
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#83
11-18-2004, 01:55 AM
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| Wankers... Hello... These monkeys have done their homework - and then some - sound technology if you can find a drunkard owner willing to massage his investment with appropriate goop for a saltwater environment... Fantastic installs - same as diesel electrics in WWII - waiting for LESS batteries - big ass Lithiums... See http://www.solomontechnologies.com/S...%20Nimble.html ... You will need a kilowatt to Horse on a bit converter...  To date - batts are ballast - as they were - and Japan needs to kick into our needs yet again... It can - has - and will again be done - to any HP - it is only a matter of owner or builder preferance - personally - I would take the big ass diesel - only because I KNOW big ass diesels... But these peeps are on their way - no doubt - corrosion would be my first hurdle to guess upon - that based on inspection of an install of same on a Nimble Kodiak - owner was lazy - did not oil fog the 'motor' - bad corrosion on outer casings - no worse than same on poorly maintained outboard - so Soloman has a go for me... Yup - good thread - sort of - can I introduce you to my coffee table or basement muck up photos of my plasma mookie drive - FlybyBoat by math (a 30 year old burp in 2nd year- with no appreciable application) - 2 and 2 is 32 less 30... Lets talk spark ovals and compression ratios - so every 'hick' - and those who bite the bits at Ford - with a real engine mock - can plug his or her bits into the muck - yes... I will only have time for one question - 'when you get back' - to test all us 'simple pokes' - the energy is free - which was my first guess that you have yet to pass 5th year - GREAT - now print me some 20's and meet at the 7 eleven with your blow up doll - lets talk about spherical intersections of relational time - is it a flat plane or is it same with mass (gas) questions - or am I just a muck in the mud... SH. |
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#84
11-18-2004, 06:33 AM
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| Most of the "inefficency" of a small diesel is caused by the Mfg asking for it to be set up to turn the prop at max rpm , so as you throttle back the loads become managable for long periods of time , by reducing power. Unfortunat;y this only works at 80 or 90% of rated engine RPM, once you get down to 1200 or 1400 the engine is seriously underloaded , and the service life / efficency suffers. A transmission with more than ONE speed would be the simple and inexpensive cure. Marine 2 speeds are now being mfg , and avilable .18 speeds are avilable out of trucks for the really finicky. A EGT gage would be required not to overload the engine at low speeds. Sure seams easier that 10,000 lb of batterys to get out of the harbor, or the daisy chain inefficencies of generating power , creating electric , storing /using the electric and an aditional heavy electric motor. Water taxi , maybe , trip to China? , hardly. FAST FRED |
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#85
12-16-2004, 11:05 PM
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| Professional BoatBuilder article The Dec/Jan 2005 issue of Professional BoatBuilder has a really excellent article on the subject of diesel-electric propusion by Nigel Calder |
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#86
12-21-2004, 12:40 PM
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| Electric Discussion from Multihull Forum Brian wrote: I haven't had a chance to review this material, but it looked as though it would be of interest to those folks following this technology. you might also visit their multihull forum, and the archive section in particular for more discussions on this subject. ______________________________________________ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:47:34 AM EST From: "Bruce Bibee" <BBibee@BCA.LACITY.ORG> To: <multihulls@steamradio.com> Subject: [MHml] Diesel Electric Propulsion I looked into the electric propulsion concept some time ago for my 'ideal' catamaran. I only expect to use the electric propulsion in the first/last 5-10 miles for maneuver in marina's, moorings, and anchorages. I would like to avoid the diesel component and recharge by regeneration, wind, and/or solar. Hi Bruce, Based on what you have said then our motors would be ideal, in regards to Hp=Kw then there is 744watts = 1Hp the weight of this model is 11 kilo's and costs £895.00 each, the slower the motor the greater the torque which is what is required in a marine application, yes by connecting the 3 batteries in series you will have 36v and you can make strings of these to get the desired amp hours. The motor controller will cost anywhere between £200.00 to £500.00 depending on which make and model you choice would think that a curtis or sevcon would be good, see details via our web site. It is possible to build in regen into the drive system and it can also be driven from a generator if required. Regards Trevor Sent: 16 September 2004 16:49 To: trevor@lmcltd.net Subject: RE: boat motor Hi Trevor! I was planning on mounting the motors in waterproof nacelles with the motor shaft running through a gland or 'O' rings to keep out the water - they will only be submerged around 2'. I expect to attach the two bladed propellor directly to the motor shaft. I was also considering pumping air into the nacelle so that air leaked out when the motor was in use and prevented water from getting in. I anticipate mounting the nacelle on a hinged bar so that the nacelle can be swung up and out of the water when not in use - to reduce drag, fouling, and corrosion. The specs on the 36V motor look good - the maximum rpm is relatively low (to reduce cavitation on the propellor) - do you have the conversion factor to convert Nm to horsepower?. How much does the motor weigh? cost (USD)? and what is its outside diameter? I presume that I can run the motor from a bank of three deep discharge sealed 12V batteries connected in series - and by putting another series connected bank of three in parallel with the first bank the run time can be extended. The way I interpret the chart is that if I were to connect the motor to a single bank of three series connected 230 amp-hour batteries, I could run your motor at full load at 1,275 rpm for an hour which would deplete the batteries by 117 amp-hours or about 51% of their capacity. The amount of distance this would take the boat would, of course, depend on how fast the motors pushed the boat through the water which is dependent on the boats drag. The goal here is 5-7 knots. What does the motor controller cost and how does it vary the power to the motor? I would prefer a controller that uses a chopper rather than resistance to vary the speed of the motor since recharging the battery bank is going to be a problem since the main way will be to use the motor as a generator while the boat is sailing. Can one of these motors be connected to a small diesel engine to create a generator set that would produce enough power to directly drive the motor driving the propellor? This might be used to use the motor over a more prolonged period of time. If so, what is the size of such an engine? >>> "Trevor Lees" <trevor@lmcltd.net> 9/15/04 22:34 >>> Thank you for your email. It is not possible to produce 10 - 15Hp @ 12v using our technology and they cannot be submerged in water the salt will react with the brushes and breakdown very quickly. I would suggest our motor LEM-200-D135 @ 24 - 48v would be more suitable with a Curtis controller, see attached performance curves and if you feel this is what you require then we will supply further details. Regards Trevor Lees Sent: 15 September 2004 21:34 To: sales@lmcltd.net Subject: boat motor I need a pair of electric motors, each of which will be submerged in salt water and directly spin an 18" 18 pitch propellor up to about 1000-1500 rpm to drive a 40' sailing catamaran. The boat normally uses a 12 volt system for internal electrical use so this would be ideal - especially since battery recharge seems to be this voltage for solar and wind generators. Alternately, the props could be left in the water while sailing to act as generators and recharge the batteries. A motor controller for variable speed and forward/reverse would also be required. I am not really sure what to ask for but it should be as thin as possible to reduce drag from the motor housing and probably be in the 10-15 hp range. Do you have any dealers in southern California? another related exchange Hi Bruce Many folks have built a wide variety electric propulsion systems for marine use. The type of system you have described is available (for a price) or... you can build and experiment with your own. At 12V, the current required would be too much to provide horsepower in that range. Volts x Amps = Watts. 742 watts = 1 horsepower. Virtually all efficient systems of this type are inboard, an outboard drive is woefully inefficient. Here are some links to get you started: The best electric marine drives- http://www.solomontechnologies.com/ See these links to get an idea of what is required to propel your vessel- http://www.solomontechnologies.com/S...allations.html http://host.wallstreetcity.com/wsc2/...02&Symbol=SOLM Many folks use a permanent magnet motor and regenerative controller to build their own system- http://www.evparts.com/shopping/prod...roduct_id=3555 Follow this thread at boat design.net, look for postings by Lock Hughes- http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=676 Some electric boat projects- http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/index9.html Lots more eboat links- Electric Boat Association of the Americas http://www.electricboat.com Solar Electric Boats http://www.mindspring.com/~jimkerr1/sebref.htm Electric Boat Conversion Info http://www.mindspring.com/~jimkerr1/sebc&t.htm Electric Boat Component Suppliers http://www.mindspring.com/~jimkerr1/sebcomp.htm Cloud EV - Electric Racing Boats http://www.cloudelectric.com/generic.html?pid=53 Beckman Electric Drive Systems http://www.steamboating.net/electric.htm Duffy Electric Boats http://www.duffyboats.com/products/products.html ElectraCraft Electric Boats http://www.electracraft.com Electro Cruise Electric Boats http://www.electrocruise.com Black River Electric Boats http://pages.intrstar.net/~brb Aqua Watt Electric Motor Yachts http://www.aquawatt.at/start.html Electric Launch Company http://www.electriclaunch.com Ray Electric Outboards http://www.rayeo.com Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA My Electric Vehicle Pages: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html Informative Electric Vehicle Links: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries: http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm Hello Bruce, Thank you for your email, and your interest in the Campbell Sailer propeller. Based on the information that you have provided, we would recommend CS3x18x12 for your installation. These are Campbell Sailer, three blade, 18" diameter, 12" pitch for a xx" shaft. This size is recommended to give you a good cruising rpm and still have reserve for head wind and seas. If you decide to use 2 blade props our recommendation would be a 18" pitch x 13" diameter. The 3 blade prop is a more efficient and smoother running propeller. Because of the narrow blades there is less drag than a standard 2 blade prop. Our props are more efficient than a standard prop due to the cupped blades and leading edge foil. This design has less slip by 12-15% compared to the Michigan Wheel. We would need to know the shaft diameter and rotation. The 3 blade propellers would cost you US$585.00 each and the 2 blade props cost is $530.00 plus a shipping and handling fee of $45.00 to $50.00. It would take us 6-7 days to make these propellers and approximately 2-5 days for delivery depending on where you are. We accept checks by mail, or credit cards by mail, fax, or phone. We would be pleased to discuss this recommendation with you, simply drop us a note and we will call. The Campbell Sailer prop with the cupped blades and the leading edge foil is a very efficient high thrust prop. The blade design produces less slippage than any standard prop. It has more thrust in forward and reverse which will spin the prop in the free wheeling mode to charge your batteries. Because of the blade design cavitation is greatly reduced. Between 400 to 1500RPM is ideal. It seems this is rather experimental and if necessary the pitch can be changed in either direction 3-4". Smooth sailing, Norm Ross norm@westbynorth.com _______________________________________________ Multihulls mailing list Multihulls@steamradio.com http://steamradio.com/mailman/listinfo/multihulls |
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#87
12-21-2004, 01:04 PM
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| Brian, thanks for the links! Also, there's a Nigel Calder piece in the latest issue of Sail magazine, which I got yesterday. It's just one of those typical magazine blurbs, but he does say he'd go with diesel-electric if he were building a boat for himself today. This from an acknowledged guru on boat systems. Two things I've been thinking about -- One, using battery only w/ regen for fast sailboats (multihulls, etc.), where one would only be motoring in and out of marinas. Some of these boats are fast and powerful enough that good regen is a given. I believe Salomon has equipped at least one trimaran like this. Two, using NiMH batteries to cut the weight of the battery bank in half. The problem is getting an appropriate charging system built. Also, large NiMH batteries are expensive, and available in only a couple of sizes. I have some skepticism about these systems too, but I haven't thought it all out yet. There are definately some questions I'd like to hear answered by Dave Tether. On to reading your links over the next few days. |
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#88
12-21-2004, 02:04 PM
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| Brian Rodwell's assestment Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 05:12:36 AM EST From: "Brian Rodwell" <b_rodwell@hotmail.com> To: multihulls@steamradio.com Subject: [MHml] electric propulsion I was fairly excited about using electric propulsion for a cruising multihull. I checked out what would be needed for a fairly long (70') but relatively light (15ton) cruising catamaran. The approach seemed to stack up: one big diesel for the generator instead of the conventional 3 diesels two fixed blade propellors that could be hoisted clear of the water For most of my requirements (short duration manouvering) it looked fine. Then I looked at one particular requirement - on some occasions I will want to travel at 8 knots for 24 hours under electric motor only. Getting this level of continuous power from batteries is not feasible. By my calculations this dictated a generating capacilty of 50hp. Generators this size are not cheap. I didn't keep my exact calculations but the all up cost was greater than the conventional alternative. I am sure the technology associated with electric propulsion is improving faster than the technology for conventional propulsion. There will be a point where, even for my requirements, electric propulsion will be more investment cost effective. But not today accoriding to my calculations. I am publishing this partly to share my thoughts but also to invite assertions to the contrary. Please publish your views. |
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#89
01-21-2005, 06:32 PM
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| Corrections ? Dave and Mike, Could you two please get together and agree on a conversion factor from HP to watts. Dave uses the standard 1 HP= 746 watts (6 HP = 31 amps @ 144VDC) whereas Mike is using 1HP= 864 watts (6 HP= 36 amps @ 144VDC). If one of you is using the incorrect factor, then how about correcting any posts that used the wrong numbers. Also, Dave in your example using a 50 HP engine that had 40 % losses, you say that a 30HP motor with 20 % losses is equivalent - I get 37.5 HP could you show your math to straighten me out. And last but not least, Dave could you tell me what effect regeneration has on boat speed. I would expect that the energy needed to turn the prop for regeneration would reduce speed ? Thanks guys for the stimulating discussion. |
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#90
01-22-2005, 06:50 AM
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| When using a tiny alternator belted of the shaft on a 28ft lwl 33ft cutter with a 20X 13 prop the boat would loose a Knot in most conditions , more in light air IF the prop was spinning. The diameter of the Spinning prop is the same as a sea anchor of the same diameter in terms of loss of speed. We are considerably OVERCANVASED (as its not a racing boat) so a larger boat (with less SA to disp) would slow even more . Aint no free lunch! FAST FRED |
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...er no - sorry, I mean E = MC2
Linear Mode
