so why doesnt it work?

[pistnbroke]

No container was going australia to uk ....as I understand it there is a pirate problem as you aproach the Suez canal entrance via the gulf of Aden which is bordered by Somalia
They seem to ignore ..polution produced by manufacture of solar cells
polution cused by manufacture of Lithium batteries ( some have been replaced)and disposal
The fuel consumed by the planes flown to maintain/repair the boat and take them home for a jolly..

Did I miss something or are all the world leaders who have greeted them stupid?I am also anyoyed all this ******** is being presented to kids ..so much real learning could have been done......

Perhaps when they get to the boat show at Sancturary Cove in Brisbane someone will put them right ???

[RayThackeray]

Originally Posted by kroberts

Myths:
Generating props. That's perpetual motion. Any time you have a system that powers itself, it won't work. Sailboat hulls are very slick, and a generating impeller would multiply the drag of the hull several times. You would be better off using solar panels or a wind generator if you're not under sail.

Wow, I sailed my William Garden 51" Offshore Ketch 22,000 miles with the prop generating under sail some of the time for house banks (no brake, hydraulic tranny on the Lehman, prop span the whole time above about 3 knots). Yeah, I was losing some speed, but I typically found that no matter what I did I usually averaged 100 miles a day (4 knots). I can assure you, I got more charging current at 12v than from my Fourwinds wind generator - and that was no slouch.

I didn't know I had a perpetual motion machine! But nobody can tell me that it didn't work...

[RayThackeray]

Originally Posted by kbowen

I don't have to go back to Granddaddy, my dad remembered horse drawn postal and milk trucks...

Since this is the hybrid thread - back in England since I was a little boy in the 50s, I remember the milk trucks every morning very well, because they all rattled with their milk bottles and made that gentle whine of - hold onto your hats - electric motors! Pretty much all the milk in the UK was delivered that way, probably still is. I don't know that their range is, probably only a few miles from the farm or milk distribution centre, but they are a great nationwide example of an effective electric vehicle.

Now I live in California, I'm seeing a lot of electric vehicles, not just the Teslas. I think a lot of people are beginning to realize that they only ever drive about 20 or 30 miles a day (school runs, shopping etc.) and that with a cheap electric car it should virtually run forever and is extremely cheap to run. Most are still doing the same in Hummers and Lincoln Navigators, but there's a clear shift going on, and it's about mentality.

On Alameda, I see a few people with small 4-seat electric cars that are little more than golf carts - but as they never need to leave the island, they are perfect. And easily zip up to 50mph as I discovered before we both saw the police car - the limit is 25mph on the entire island.

We're on the cusp of a major shift. In this thread I see a lot of childish derogatory comments about electric drive, and the snickering about the pioneers who try to make it work, but in 10 years those chuckling up their sleeves are going to go the way of the dinosaurs. (I don't refer to the more level-headed of you who point out the significant energy density problems of today's energy storage).

Ray

[AOA]

An optimised propeller and Emotor is close to 90% efficient, so the drag is lower than the extra drag brought by the weight of fuel equivalent needed to run a generator, therefore they are now used for racing.
http://www.wattandsea.com/hydrogenerateur_en.php

The main problem is to find a reversible prop solution efficient at both quadrants, propulsion and generation as it is not available yet on the market

[nukisen]

If you are possible do this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVsrX...eature=related
Why couldn´t you use it in a boat?
Answer!
Of course it is possible.

[kerosene]

possible and sensible are 2 different things.

For example looking at the comments on the KTM video you can see that there is a lot of resistance towards e-dirtbike.

And as long as short range is ok motorbike is a sensible place for electric power-train.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by RayThackeray

On Alameda, I see a few people with small 4-seat electric cars that are little more than golf carts - but as they never need to leave the island, they are perfect. And easily zip up to 50mph as I discovered before we both saw the police car - the limit is 25mph on the entire island.


Ray

I agree. And I would switch to electric vehicle if there was cheap options available. The problem is that vehicle industry is super rigid. Those gofl cart like e-vehicles are registered as neighborhood vehicle and by law can't go over 25mph. They might go faster but not legally. For you to go over 25mph in a vehicle that is not over a ton (900kg) it needs to have 3 wheels and be a motorcycle. Any 4 wheeler is subject to the safety requirements of a car and at that point you cannot do it cheap anymore.

Europe has a L7 class vehicles (quadbikes) that would make it possible to have highway speed light vehicle. But the motorcycle industry in europe is trying to add huge amount of regulations and restrictions to those too (to fend of Chinese quad competition - as if they wouldn't adapt even faster).

[kroberts]

Originally Posted by RayThackeray

Wow, I sailed my William Garden 51" Offshore Ketch 22,000 miles with the prop generating under sail some of the time for house banks (no brake, hydraulic tranny on the Lehman, prop span the whole time above about 3 knots). Yeah, I was losing some speed, but I typically found that no matter what I did I usually averaged 100 miles a day (4 knots). I can assure you, I got more charging current at 12v than from my Fourwinds wind generator - and that was no slouch.

I didn't know I had a perpetual motion machine! But nobody can tell me that it didn't work...

No, here's the key: You lost some speed. My comment was aimed at those who think that you can drop an impeller-operated generator into the water and either get free energy from it, or somehow power a propeller which increases overall speed.

Your generator had a cost: It cost you speed of the boat, which means you understand that the energy coming from your sails drove the generator.

[AOA]

Originally Posted by kroberts

...Your generator had a cost: It cost you speed of the boat, which means you understand that the energy coming from your sails drove the generator.

Originally Posted by AOA

... the drag is lower than the extra drag brought by the weight of fuel equivalent needed to run a generator, therefore they are now used for racing...

Of course nothing is fully neutral, even a neutron has an effect on matter, but a well designed hydrogenerator isn't noticeable while sailing

[kroberts]

Noticeable or not, all I'm saying is that you don't get back as much as it cost you. Ever. Whether it's noticeable or not, whether it's worth it or not in some other way, that I will not argue.

[AOA]

What about a charter sailing boat used all year ? i guess a fast cat would have a great interest to switch for full hybrid as a professional user will be better suited than the average joe to manage the energy of an electric set-up. And what about the comfort of not getting any more noise, does it have a price ? Can this price be sold to the final user ?

For seldom used leisure boat of course i'm afraid you are right. The Watt and sea is more than 5.8K€ for the light 500W version, race should cost double. So from a financial point of view, such technology is more expensive than running a generator.

But, are our humanity, the meanings of our life, our choices restricted to the amount of dollar that come in and go out ? Will we give a price to anything and let the financial parameter decide of everything ?

[FAST FRED]

"But, are our humanity, the meanings of our life, our choices restricted to the amount of dollar that come in and go out ? Will we give a price to anything and let the financial parameter decide of everything ?"


You would prefer a DICTATOR , deciding on your life?

Good luck, with that ,

but remember today if you decide to spend $50K or more for a 4K boat with 20 mile range , there is no Big Brother stopping you.

FF

[AOA]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

You would prefer a DICTATOR , deciding on your life?

Good luck, with that ,

Nuke or candle ?
Oil or dictator ?
Cheese or dessert ?

I just say mankind and the eco-system are not the adjustment variable of profits. I adapt my finance to my conciousness, not the reverse. Sorry i do not get the logic you try to explain.

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

but remember today if you decide to spend $50K or more for a 4K boat with 20 mile range , there is no Big Brother stopping you.

You can find affordable solutions, under 5K without labour. On a sailing boat or day fishing boat it has a sense, now i understand some are not ready to accept the drawbacks of an electric solution.
http://www.re-e-power.com/

[pistnbroke]

I do wish people would stick to the point of the tread which as I underastand it is Taranor Solar planet boat and why it wont work ....well it is working BUT its got to go into dry dock in austalia for repairs to the hull ...why bother the Somali pirates will have it ........( I hope )

[AOA]

sorry, do not send me the pirates, i obey ...

Weight is the enemy of efficiency. 90Tons is the main problem, much too heavy for a 2010 boat.

Sun 21 was 12 Tons for 14 meters and 2x8 Kw... so much more efficient http://www.transatlantic21.org/boat/