Lithium Manganese (Li-man) batteries?

[DanishBagger]

Loads of reading there! Excellent, Perry!

19 days to go – aren't you nervous as hell?

[Pericles]

"19 days to go – aren't you nervous as hell?"

Inte jus nu.

Pericles

[DanishBagger]

Sounds like you're pretty confident

[Guest625101138]

Here is some detail on the A123 Li-ion battery technology:
http://forum.gorillamask.net/showthread.php?t=61715

Rick W.

[DanishBagger]

There's not really any information in that article. It reads like a press release (i.e. pseudocommercial). Just like it did back when we discussed their own website.

Although, it's quite interesting, they still do not say how they counter the explosion risk. And with flat (as in shape) , low, and two metre (almost 7 feet) long batteries, I certainly wouldn't want those in a boat. With all that banging and shaking a boat experience, I doubt it will be strong and safe enough in the long run. Just think of the individual solderings flexing. That's another introduced problem they created, seemingly in an effort to "be different", but nonetheless an introduced unnecessary potential problem.

There's no purpose in making them that shape in a car, since you still need more than one (i.e. several), so you might as well make them more square (taller and shorter), and thereby inherently stronger by design. This way they make them more prone to flexing, and thus mechanical failure. Yes, one could work around the extra problem, but there's no reason to have that problem to begin with.

No, I still wouldn't trust A123-batteries any more than I would back when we discussed them the last time.

[klevalt]

Hi there... In the past near-year, have you found resolution to your safety questions regarding the LiMan batteries? I am personally interested in changing out the follis-fuel engine of the boat I buy, with an electric motor, however the only thing that is holding me back from fully planning this undertaking is the battery issue. Safety, of course, first; but then there is the space issue, rechargeability (can I do it with solar and wind?) their life-span, etc. I am a novice, and you appear from your posts to be close to (if not, exceeding) expert level, so if you please, (and if you have the time) can you explain to me a few of the intricacies?

I truly appreciate your time.
Blessings,
Karole

[DanishBagger]

Originally Posted by klevalt

Hi there... In the past near-year, have you found resolution to your safety questions regarding the LiMan batteries? I am personally interested in changing out the follis-fuel engine of the boat I buy, with an electric motor, however the only thing that is holding me back from fully planning this undertaking is the battery issue. Safety, of course, first; but then there is the space issue, rechargeability (can I do it with solar and wind?) their life-span, etc. I am a novice, and you appear from your posts to be close to (if not, exceeding) expert level, so if you please, (and if you have the time) can you explain to me a few of the intricacies?

I truly appreciate your time.
Blessings,
Karole

Hi Karole,

Sorry for my late reply.

Thank you very much for the roses, but I am far from being at "expert level", and certainly not exceeding it. I'm just a geek, and an amateur at that.

No, I haven't found a real-world solution yet. The batteries from Torqeedo are still so expensive that in the real world, one would do better if one went with traction batteries and the inherent problems, wasted energy and so on with that type of batteries compared to Li-man (and even Li-ion, when it comes to getting charged).

Lithium-ion/manganese batteries charge much faster than, say, traction, they don't loose their charge anywhere near as fast as lead based ones, and the amperage is there to use until the battery is completely run dry. No "lumps" in the power or a voltage drop until the very end, and did I mention that much less energy is wasted when charging Li-ion/man batteries? This of course also result in much less heat being made in that process.

Oh, and the weight, the weight. Li-man/ion weigh much less per amp-hour than

Safety-wise, though, I'd still say that the Li-Manganese batteries are much, much safer than any - any - li-Ion.
The basic tech is safer, resulting in an end product inherently much safer, no matter what safety add-ons one put on the ion-versions.

Yes, you can charge basically any battery bank with solar and wind. The problem is, of course, how much you take out of the bank. The naval architects on this site (I'm not one of them) will be able to help you with calculations if you ask them, but I can safely say, that not all boats would benefit from an electrical engine. It really does depend on the hull form, not to mention what sort of use the engine will see: Will it be in and out of harbour only? Will it need to be used in inclement weather? Is it a sailboat? A motorboat? And so on.

With regards to solar power, how and where you can place the panels, and whether they can be adjusted, not to mention where you live plays a big part in choosing the size and wattage. The effective wattage is much smaller than what's on the panel, especially if not placed optimally (yes, I very much doubt that's a real word, but I'm not english, so my apologies).

Electrical engines seem to last a long time, but there are different kinds, different voltages and so on, but I'd venture my opinion and say that electrical engines need far less maintenance, not only because they are much simpler with much less mechanical parts, but also because of the technology itself, so they'll last longer than the average boat engine. Especially if the diesel is only used for getting in and out of harbour.

I don't know how big a boat you have or anything like that, but a hybrid design might do you well, depending on circumstances. There are various degrees of hybrids - huge ships and bigger boats sometimes do without the battery bank entirely, using a generator to power the electrical engine(s).

I think you should start a thread* of your own (to get the most attention) in this hybrid-forum, tell us about your boat with as much details as possible: Sailboat/motorboat, displacement, dimensions, how you use the boat, what your intentions are for usage with the electrical engine, and where you live (not the address, ha ha, but just so we know if you're living in a sunny place, a windy place, or in, say, Svalbard).
That's all I can think of off-hand.


*To start a thread (it's a bit backwards around here), you go to a forum, and then on the right, it says "Forum Tools". From then on, it's self-explanatory.