Hydrogen/ Electric Powered Sailboat

[Spiv]

Just read this article on Sail-World:
"Jim Harrington, engineer, scientist, inventor says that the worst thing for the future of the world would be the lowering of fuel prices. Jim's mechanical creations have orbited the Sun and he has built equipment for NASA, but his heart lies closer to home, attached to the stern of a simple sailing boat.

The boat, the Jim D, holds the key to the world's future, says Jim. According to the Victoria News, what's got Harrington's heart racing is a hydrogen fuel cell-powered engine. " more..

You can get to Jim's web site here, then click on the 'Fuel Cell' link on the bottom right.

The system is already working, but will need further development.

What I found interesting is this statement:
"The hydrogen for this test was supplied by NRC in Vancouver. NRC uses photovoltaic panels that transform solar energy into hydrogen to power fuel cells"

I don't know at what rate Hydrogen can be extracted from water with this system, but if it works OK, I would prefer to have a couple of Hydrogen tanks than a bank of batteries.

Then again, if one needs a compressor to store the Hydrogen, then perhaps the system becomes inefficient.

Any thoughts?

[Tim B]

"NRC uses photovoltaic panels that transform solar energy into hydrogen to power fuel cells"

Wow, turning photons into hydrogen, now that's physics.


Anyway, broadly, the concept of running an electric motor in a yacht instead of an engine makes a lot of sense (smaller, quieter, lighter). The problem is getting enough power to it to give a useful range. At the moment that means a lot of batteries, but as battery technology improves, I think we will see more uptake of electrical drives.

Tim B.

[brian eiland]

Couple of basic problems with hydrogen as a fuel source:

It does not really exist as an element in nature as it likes to combine with other elements. And once that occurs it takes lots of energy to separate it back out into just hydrogen.

Once separated it is the smallest atomic element out there, and under normal atmoshere it exist as a gas, so trying to contain it can be difficult as it will leak thru extremely small holes, and even atomically thru permeable materials

I thought this technology had real possibilities:

Alternative Auxilary Propulsion
Hydrogen on Demand™
Millennium Cell's proprietary Hydrogen on Demand™ fuel system safely generates pure hydrogen from environmentally friendly raw materials. The hydrogen is stored on-board at ambient conditions in a liquid fuel - an aqueous (water-based) solution of sodium borohydride, NaBH4. Sodium borohydride is made from borax, a material that is found in substantial natural reserves globally, with a particularly large supply in the U.S. The process supplies pure hydrogen for energy applications without the need (and associated energy penalties) for compression or liquefaction. Hydrogen produced by this system can be used for a variety of applications, addressing a wide range of power requirements.

http://www.millenniumcell.com/about/index.html


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hydrogen+on+demand

[marshmat]

Using solar photovoltaic cells to produce electricity, then using that electricity to electrolyze water into its constituent elements (hydrogen and oxygen) is a fairly simple, well known process. The efficiency of the electrolysis process is far from perfect but improvements are slowly being made. Still, you need a lot of solar collector area for it to be a practical system. In any case, hydrogen rarely occurs (on Earth at least) in an elemental state and so isn't really an energy source on its own; rather, it's a medium for storing energy collected by a different method for later use.

The problem of storing hydrogen will be a thorny issue for a while yet. In its gaseous state it has incredibly low density, thus it must be compressed to pressures on the order of 40-80 MPa (6000-12000 psi) in order to get a useful amount into a tank that still fits in a car or small boat. The other traditional option for storing pure hydrogen, liquefying it, requires expensive cryogenic compressors that use almost as much energy liquefying the hydrogen as the fuel itself carries to begin with. There are some promising nanotechnology concepts for storing it; alas, none have yet made it out of the lab.

Sodium borohydride and other hydrogen-containing compounds might be a viable means of distributing and storing hydrogen; I think there's still a lot of research that needs to be done on the economic and regulatory fronts as well as the technical issues. A great hydrogen storage material is useless if you can only get it from one company, while the fuelling stations in the adjacent city use an incompatible technology from a different company.

[Petros]

This guy is a fool. Sails operate much safer, more relaiably and cheaper than his set-up. Wind is powered by the sun.

If there is no wind and you need a motor to keep from running aground in a strong current, the equivalent sized electric motor and battery bank would weigh and cost much more than a small outboard. You actually waste energy and resources by dragging around more equipment (weight) than you need.

A hybrid uses more resources, more maintenance, is less reliable and more also has more cost too. So why do it?

[Spiv]

Agree that on a sailing boat one wants to use the sail, but there is docking, getting in and out of harbours and some other circumstances when one wants to use the engines.

Electric engines are light, waterproof, can be nearly maintenance free.
Tugs use them, the Australian Navy is spending $3B on two Diesel/ Electric amphibious & helicopter carriers.

Diesel/ electric is gaining popularity with small vessels as well, two or three production cats come with factory fitted diesel/ electric drives.
With these, you must run the engine to use the drives. This because batteries are too heavy; an alternative means of storing energy would be great.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Spiv

....This because batteries are too heavy; an alternative means of storing energy would be great.

But look what might be coming, nano-technology materials (carbon aerogels....big surface areas) for ultra-capacitor batteries makes for light weight units. And the huge new interest in these battery subjects by the needs for electric cars will drive this technology very rapidly....hopefully like our moon program at one time.

Under "Batteries and New Battery Technologies"
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sho...7&postcount=72
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sho...7&postcount=73

[FAST FRED]

Check out ,

www.hydrogenht.com

For a real interesting story.

FF

[Spiv]

Sounds good on their site, however the latest news were Sep 2007.
They also claim to be listed on the NASDAQ as HHT, but I had a look and found no record of them....

Mmm... fly by night or executed by the oil cartel???

[FAST FRED]

NASDAQ as HHT,

Try HYHY

FF

[yipster]

a wind sun wave water (oceans beeing 2/3 hydrogen) hybrid sounds much better to me than "we should run our cars on water"