Hybrid power for commercial and recreational boats

[charmc]

The Foss hybrid tug was mentioned here a year ago, but there is now at least one competitor. Other hybrids are being planned for applications which include long periods of operation at low power levels. At least one company has multiple designs incorporating solar power generation, including a hybrid cat power cruiser. Sailboats, of course, are a long ago proven method of hybrid power. The challenge for the future seems to be focused on innovative methods of engine/motor power. If we accept as a given that, regardless of the specific reasons, conservation of fossil fuel use is a good idea, these are interesting developments:

http://maritimecapitalsolutions.com/...essRelease.pdf

http://maritimecapitalsolutions.com/...UGBrochure.pdf

http://www.solarsailor.com/images/me..._Ebrochure.pdf

"We are confident we can build everything up to ocean liners
and in fifty years time people will look back at boats of the
20th Century and they'll say "where are the wings"?"- Dr Robert Dane, CEO, Solar Sailor


Comments? Details of other applications, especially smaller recreational boats?

[TollyWally]

I can grasp the viability of a solar sailboat. An open deck for solar cells, a big battery for ballast. Electric power for limited manuevering while docking etc.

Will the concept fly for a power boat operating as a planing hull? I find it hard to believe one can burn fuel to generate electricity to provide propulsion more efficiently than burning fuel directly for propulsion. There was an interesting article in Professional Boatbuilding a while back addressing some of the difficuties between theory and reality.

This proves nothing but is an interesting article on the subject.

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol...cle3552994.ece

[masalai]

Give it time and investment incentive Tolly, - someone suggested some 1000 watts per square metre waiting to be harvested, but do not expect high performance, just comfortable mobility...

[Kaptin-Jer]

Has there been an electric, 50 horse power, system designed for a sailboat yet?

[masalai]

Supposedly will cover that range expressed as a diesel engine output.. Thoosa 17000 from ASMO Marine36KW peak 17Kw continuous (said to replace 40 - 60 hp combustion engine) www.asmomarine.com , and, www.africancats.com is getting organised for their cats... It appears that the KW for electric is available almost from zero revs as torque, so I would guess at 2 x 10kw driving a 10 ton cat at near 9knots as being within the ballpark (with the generator belting out at full power - I would guess 25KW??? for a brief burst) at ... from interpretation of Fischer Panda promo stuff on their website, www.fischerpanda.de ...

I like the idea on sailing cats, as one could use 2 smaller lightweight gensets (redundancy), instead of the very heavy marine main propulsion units, and drive direct to electric motors (with maybe MINIMAL battery backup - as house batteries and instant go, giving the generators to get up speed and generating capacity)? Also while sailing, the motors could be swung up out of the water - reducing drag or the need for folding props - left down used as regen to charge house bank and meet other needs whilst under sail...

Still in a heavy learning curve myself, and finding new stuff is always coming to light...

[TollyWally]

I was wondering if anyone followed the link I put up? If so I would appreciate thoughts and theories about it. I am by no means anti hybrid but a few lingering memories from my high school physics class raise a wee bit of sceptisism. I truly look forward to some enlightenment.

[masalai]

Not really appropriate in this forum, but what the heck - niether (i before e except after c?), am I sometimes ... The comparison is chalk and cheese - diesel engines tend to burn less & I feel the toyota is strictly a suburbs car... "horses for courses"...

[Kaptin-Jer]

I don't agree with using our food supply for fuel---That said I like the site that Mas suggested and I found other links for electric motors. Why do they have to be so d--m expensive! Basic price of $8,770.00 to replace a 50 hp diesel. Not counting the extra batteries and a few other things. The Government should be giving them away! An electric system is the right way to go on a sailboat because you are limited to hull speed. We need to start a forum on electric motors and see if some of our resident electrical experts can design a do it yourself system that us novices can put together with Radio Shack parts. I think I'll suggest it.

[masalai]

Kaptin-Jer, Have a look here, some more useful links and posts...
Batteries
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sho...456#post193456
Gensets (new)
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sho...525#post193525
Electric drive motors
Electric drive motors for sail craft (mono & multi)


I am not considering major battery use, as present technology is not able to deliver solar (photovoltaic / wind / regen from the screws) in sufficient quantity... I am looking at a light weight engine like the Lombardini for genset and the 14-June-2007 "Press release" on "retractable drive" as espoused by African Cats...

Batteries will serve as house & "instant go" while the genset gets up steam... That is my hope... My cruising region lacks access to fuel (on remote islands) so I look to be able to use coconut oil got locally... If processed locally no food is removed from the community...

[masalai]

I am not sure whether this link has been posted - Ahhhg here it is...
http://www.electricmarinepropulsion....echnology.html

[TollyWally]

I appreciate your looking at the link, I thought it appropriate because of the hybrid angle. Apologies to those who might find it off topic.

While I understand the benefits of capturing energy expended in braking I fail to see how a hybrid could reduce energy consumed in a powerboat other than using solar energy banked over an extended time and consumed in a much shorter time.

I am not being argumentative, I want it to be true. I just don't see how it will save any fuel.

[masalai]

Tolly, not much benefit, I would expect, in the case of a displacement mono, except... where the generator also supplies and replaces cooking & hot water needs as well as recharging the "house-bank" on long cruises, and also used to motor below "displacement" levels of velocity... A lot more relevance for sail boats as an auxiliary capable of other services which would not be usually expected (aircon etc.)... It is a matter of justification, needs and wants... whilst minimising cost and other intrusions/impacts/costs...