Hybrid Electric Propulsion for Boats, Diesel-Electric, etc

[brian eiland]

I was going to just make an additional reply to this older subject thread, but it appears to have strayed off subject in several instances, so I thought a new begining was applicable considering the fellow who really brought this relatively new technology to the yachtng scene has also a new begining.

First a reference to the extensive, original subject thread that contains lots of information to review:

Solomon Technologies - "Electric Wheel" electric motor propulsion systems

HI Folks....David Tether here. Have been forwarded a bunch of email stuff that suggested you all had questions....so I checked in and logged on! Having read the emails with interest I will submit one basic premise....We have studied this something fierce for 6 years. Several basic things about fossil fuel motors...they are here to stay for awhile because it is hard to achieve the power densities with any other medium(and the big three/Oil companies won't let you any way), Fossil fuel motors are over rated(motor torque rating at some RPM where you can't use it constantly, Parasitic losses are on brand new pumps, impellers, alternators (with charged batteries) and with new belts, they are oversized to be able to push a prop at start-up rpm's, and anyone that thinks the average boat transmissions are 98% efficient needs a new drug. Also...through there support systems have to be entirely variable and have Idle capability
Having said this....the average generator, because it is ballanced and blueprinted to make electricity with a ballanced load can convert fossil fuel into electricity at about 45 to 70% efficiency. Now the battery pack becomes your second fuel tank and allows the generator to only run at it's optimum efficiency. The battery pack is your source for quick, on demand high demand, current draws. What happens is that whenever you use fossil fuel it is always converted at the highest efficiency. This also allows one to adjust the batteries and generator to the mission profile....large batteries with small gen...small batteries with large gen...small batteries with small gen....large batteries with large gen.
Didn't want to ramble on just a beginning primer....

And then his new website:
E Motion Hybrids

Been There, Done That

Although it’s taken a quantum leap forward in sophistication, Tether’s basic
system has been around for some time. Years ago he founded Solomon Technologies and helped pioneer hybrid-electric propulsion technology for sailboats working from a ramshackle collection of waterfront buildings on Maryland’s Patuxent River. There he developed a plug-in hybrid-electric system for boats more than 15 years before General Motors was able to do it for cars like its Chevy Volt.

Unfortunately, the revolution got sidetracked temporarily. In 2004, Tether received a welcomed injection of capital from a group of outside investors. But the new relationship went sour, a nasty breakup ensued and he found himself on the outside looking in – no longer a part of the company he had founded.

Nothing if not determined, he sat out his contractual non-compete period and started over in Fort Myers Beach, FL, with Electric Marine Propulsion.

So lets see if we can keep this subject thread straight on the subject of this very interesting future in marine propulsion.

 

[brian eiland]

Two other interesting subject threads to cross reference:
1) http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/hybrid/diesel-electric-propulsion-sailboats-9310.html

2) http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/hybrid/diesel-electric-propulsion-system-design-have-your-say-39662.html

 

[brian eiland]

GunBoat application

I was trying to source the variety of propulsion applications that had been utilized by the GunBoat series of cats, and I was running into difficulties trying to find specific information.

In meantime I discovered that it appears as though E-Motion systems will appear on some of the new Gunboats:
http://www.electricmarinepropulsion.org/PDF/MM_Electruc_Marine_Propulsion.pdf

Surely these light weight speedsters must be 'counting calories' with respect to battery weights?

 

[Frog4]

Hydrogen-Electric ...

quick and dirty setup:

propane/diesel generator
- pick a size necessary for your energy reqs
- replace propane jets with applicably sized hydrogen jets
- (or) mod diesel genset to run propane/hydrogen
- off the shelf parts are readily available

hydrogen generator
- up-scale/mod setup for required output
- available from most science/lab/school/medical/research supply houses


these already exist, PoC's done here in AZ at ASU ...
research was done thru grant for power management during disaster relief ...
setup, PoC's and multiple working protos were and still are successfully running ...

why it wasn't put into production? POLITICS and $$$$ vs. water is FREE

 

[kerosene]

water doesn't turn into hydrogen for free.

 

[Frog4]

water doesn't turn into hydrogen for free.

Solar is FREE and so is water ...

 

[kerosene]

solar electricity is not free - and would be wasted in inefficient hydrogen conversion.

You might want to clarify the system you propose instead of cliche complaints of politics.

 

[Frog4]

solar electricity is not free - and would be wasted in inefficient hydrogen conversion.

You might want to clarify the system you propose instead of cliche complaints of politics.

in life there are booleaders and cheerleaders ...

 

[kerosene]

what a waste of time. I will step out - hopefully Brian's thread will get back in track.

 

[Frog4]

what a waste of time. I will step out - hopefully Brian's thread will get back in track.

Sorry you feel that way, I provided the info and you scoff ... oh well

 

[kerosene]

no I asked for further info/clarification and you suggested that I was being negative nancy.

edit: I guess I didn't make clear question. Would you clarify the system you propose?

 

[Frog4]

edit: I guess I didn't make clear question. Would you clarify the system you propose?

Solar/Hydrogen production for a standard ICE engine is EASY ... it ain't rocket science, not some "free-energy" device ... the SUNS energy is FREE, the WATER is FREE, the processes used are the labor, and there is an initial investment for equipment, just like your boat and all the wood, labor and time is an investment ...

F-Cell Mercedes

This one built by KIDS at college (ASU).

Those are just 2 off the top, if college kids can build them and Mercedes can build them, and HUNDREDS of others, so can any backyard DIY shade tree builder ... please don't buy into all the poor efficiency hype, these are PROVEN PoC's ...

 

[Frog4]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=uncharted-waters-students-retrofit-2009-09-22

 

[Frog4]

http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2005-01/hydrogen-powered-sailboats-set-sail

 

[Frog4]

in miniature:

http://wardsci.com/product.asp?pn=I...-AF9D-DE11-AC14-002219318F67&mr:referralID=NA