Heat Management Within Alternate Realities

[wardd]

Originally Posted by gonzo

If you want to make it more efficient, dump the exhaust hot air from the refrigerator outside. A vent would do the trick.

that may work in a normal reality

[Questor]

Originally Posted by gonzo

If you want to make it more efficient, dump the exhaust hot air from the refrigerator outside. A vent would do the trick.

Here in subarctic Canada we only need air conditioning for 7 to 21 days maximum per year. The rest of the year we need the fridge's heat to supplement home heating. Between the 1000 watt airconditioner and the 2 watt fan we're satisfied with the results we get. I wanted to leave the little 2 watt fan on all the time to enhance the efficiency of the fridge but I have a friend that teaches millwrighting at a technical college. He advised me to unplug it if we weren't using air conditioning because he claimed that the compressor needs to retain some heat to work properly. So far I haven't met any one that can challenge or confirm his opinion on that.

I've brought this issue up with friends that have vacation properties in Mexico , Florida, Arizona etc. They couldn't care less how much energy they waste. One friend pointed out that when he is at his Mexican property he just wants to party. It is easier he says to just order more air conditioners if they burn out or can't keep up with the heat generated by his six refrigerated appliances.

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Gozo is completely correct. I think many people misses the fact that a refrigerator IS an air conditioner. In the case of the fridge, the heat is pumped from inside the box to the room where the fridge is located. If you dump that heat outside, you get an air conditioner for free (the capacity/efficiency is not that high though). Electricity is so cheap, there is usually no need to do it, but in boats where energy is limited, it is a smart trick. Some fridges for boats use seawater for cooling, which will accomplish the same thing.

Originally Posted by gonzo

If you want to make it more efficient, dump the exhaust hot air from the refrigerator outside. A vent would do the trick.

[FAST FRED]

Interesting that the latest home hot water heaters use the standard resistance element on start up and for gross loads ,

But use a small refrigerator sized (500W) compressor to "air condition" the basement.

It is 5X as efficient to use the heat from cooling the basement to heat the water in the tank

(Btu water rise to W consumed), but fairly slow.

FF

[Questor]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

Interesting that the latest home hot water heaters use the standard resistance element on start up and for gross loads ,

But use a small refrigerator sized (500W) compressor to "air condition" the basement.

It is 5X as efficient to use the heat from cooling the basement to heat the water in the tank

(Btu water rise to W consumed), but fairly slow.

FF

I know of a local junk yard inventor that does something similar here. He has a cottage close to a coal fired power plant . The plant uses the lake water to cool some of their equipment. This led to the formation of a 65 degree fahrenhiet or higher current passing in front of his house year round. He took an old freezer from the dump and stripped away the casing and insulation. After that he placed the heating and cooling coils in separate in home water tanks. He circulates the heat and air conditioning potential through the cottage via old car radiators that are tied into the tanks. His junkyard invention reduced his home energy costs by 90 %.

[kerosene]

My parents farm house has used ground heat in Finland (months of way below freezing) since 1980. The pump unit was replaced with more modern one maybe 10 yr ago.

Difference to straight e-heat is big but claim of saving 90% with jury rigged freezer sounds bogus.

[Questor]

Originally Posted by kerosene

My parents farm house has used ground heat in Finland (months of way below freezing) since 1980. The pump unit was replaced with more modern one maybe 10 yr ago.

Difference to straight e-heat is big but claim of saving 90% with jury rigged freezer sounds bogus.

We have temperatures here as low as 40 to 50 below farenhiet. My 1600 square foot bungalow has winter heat costs well over $450 monthly. The junkyard inventor has a small lakeside cottage with natural gas bills up to $200 monthly prior to installing his derelict freezer heat pump. His heating bill is now down to $20 monthly plus he now has summer air conditioning.He had his natural gas service disconnected after installing the heat pump. If he didn't have access to waste heat from the nearby coal plant ( 65 degree water) his results would be much different.

[FAST FRED]

"If he didn't have access to waste heat from the nearby coal plant ( 65 degree water) his results would be much different."

The temperature of the water does not matter as much as the fact that it is still a liquid.

Stealing 3 or 4 deg of heat from 100F water takes as much energy as from 40 deg water.

FF

[Questor]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

"If he didn't have access to waste heat from the nearby coal plant ( 65 degree water) his results would be much different."

The temperature of the water does not matter as much as the fact that it is still a liquid.

Stealing 3 or 4 deg of heat from 100F water takes as much energy as from 40 deg water.

FF

Most of his heat and air conditioning comes from the 65 degree water. He is just using the heat pump from the old freezer to warm or cool the water a bit . By comparison his discarded Natural Gas furnace pulls very cold combustion air into the house at 40 below and heats it before passing it to the heat exchanger.The old air conditioner suffered similar problems having to start with much hotter air and cooling it down over a much wider range than the 65 degree water medium.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

"If he didn't have access to waste heat from the nearby coal plant ( 65 degree water) his results would be much different."

The temperature of the water does not matter as much as the fact that it is still a liquid.

Stealing 3 or 4 deg of heat from 100F water takes as much energy as from 40 deg water.

FF

I know that the system my parents have has few hundred yards of piping under the ground. The liquid leaves the house being few degrees below freezing (25F/-4C) or something and returns as 40F/+5C or similar. The change might not be quite as much especially towards the spring when the soil has cooled some. Regardless its purpose built quality system. I think the ratio is something like 1kw electricity spent for 3kw of heat. And this is in Finland where we can have few months straight with temp varying between -10C and -30.

Thus I am quite impressed if a 1kw freezer compressor can alone heat a cabin in -40F/C temps. I call bragging exaggeration.

[Questor]

Originally Posted by kerosene

I know that the system my parents have has few hundred yards of piping under the ground. The liquid leaves the house being few degrees below freezing (25F/-4C) or something and returns as 40F/+5C or similar. The change might not be quite as much especially towards the spring when the soil has cooled some. Regardless its purpose built quality system. I think the ratio is something like 1kw electricity spent for 3kw of heat. And this is in Finland where we can have few months straight with temp varying between -10C and -30.

Thus I am quite impressed if a 1kw freezer compressor can alone heat a cabin in -40F/C temps. I call bragging exaggeration.

A Professor told me about the cottage and tried to get me out to see it, but I never went. There are many unknown variables such as how big the cottage is , how many other sources of heat are in the house, how far did the occupant go in upgrading insulation, what is his comfort tolerance for household temperature, efficiency of the original Natural Gas furnace could have been as low as 30% etc.. The heat pump raised his overall electrical bill by $20.00 per month. Based on current electricity costs the $20.00 per month would buy him about 200 kw hours per month.

[FAST FRED]

I think the ratio is something like 1kw electricity spent for 3kw of heat.

The theoretical gain (COP) is 5 to one to create heat.

Many high efficiency air cond units sold today can get near the 5-1 when heating.

FF