Diesel/Hydrogen Hybrid Trawler

[apex1]

Originally Posted by kistinie

Solar energy is not free of course, but once paid for it...it's free energy (natural short cut after using it for years...sorry)
Do you think we can count on industry to give us a motor running for a third of the actual needed energy ?
No, to struggling for the economy that refuses this kind of fast changes.
The deal is for less money and a new explosive gas to generate
Almost any injection of water, O², H², butane, propane, to any engine inlet show important improvements. This is the plain postive nuisance! As usual.
Water to outlet works too.
All this devices can co generate, recycle water from exhaust (Renault patent 2005)
About what is science, what is not, please remember other anomalies exist :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy
So being open is a kind of, minimum, if we want to progress.
Ether from Tesla, and other joe cell, should be studied, just like space: aware (JCVD)

Do you think all the industry is married and they stick together to impede progressive technology? There is no competition forcing them to go new paths if there is only a few percent of improvement? You´re a child.

One third of the energy? You mean 33% ?
I know for long Kistinie you are from outer space, I did not know from how far away.

[KnottyBuoyz]

Originally Posted by thudpucker

Rick you get a little on the rasty side when your stuck on the beach eh?

Dropped it in the drink this afternoon Thud.

Blowing a gale out there though and the channel isn't buoyed yet. Oh well, plenty of last years spider crap to clean off the ole boat. Ohhhhhh and yeah I gotta install that hydrogen generator thingy too!

[marshmat]

Almost any injection of water, O², H², butane, propane, to any engine inlet show important improvements. Water to outlet works too.

Yup, giving an engine fuel and oxygen is generally an improvement over giving it nothing.

We use gasoline and diesel oil because they're convenient to store and easy to refine from stuff we learned how to drill out of the ground many decades ago. Not because they're the best or most efficient fuels to use for a given cycle. There are many ways to improve combustion in an engine. Unfortunately, most of them require that you know what you're doing, can measure cylinder pressure and temperature directly, and can manipulate the ECU. Simply spraying an unmetered quantity of some random combustible substance into the intake is usually not an effective way of improving an engine.

[apex1]

Originally Posted by marshmat

Simply spraying an unmetered quantity of some random combustible substance into the intake is usually not an effective way of improving an engine.

Yepp, but can improve the acceleration impressively Matt!






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that of the whole engine naturally.

[rasorinc]

Do you guys recommend putting Nitrous on a boat engine?

[apex1]

On no engine Stan!

[KnottyBuoyz]

NO2 is used on drag boats all the time. It's not a fuel though, it's an oxidizer. It's not usually randomly injected either but metered to meet the demand.

I can attest to the fact that it indeed "Kicks you in the a$$" when you push that lil' red button!

[kistinie]

Originally Posted by apex1

Do you think all the industry is married and they stick together to impede progressive technology? There is no competition forcing them to go new paths if there is only a few percent of improvement? ....

A few % !!!!
I perfectly understand that it is the aim, the maximum acceptable rate to prevent the castle to collapse

Competition doesn't exist on this level for industry

Prices and market attributions are decided in nice board rooms, not by the best technology available.
New technology, new actors of this technology are rather problems to solve.
Remember Tesla and JP MORGAN...Solution = Destruction of Tesla

Our industry is very deeply corrupted.

Oil : My father did this corruption for Exx.., for 30 years
Electricity: I did this for Vin.. for 15 years.

So please ...

[kerosene]

there are few options how this could/should work.

1) you can create hydrogen with less energy than can be recovered by burning it. The energy taken from alternator and braking down the engine is LESS than the energy received by the engine from the burn. The margin should be quite substantial as a diesel engine has only efficiency of 35% range at its favorite rpm.

2) it would some how magically improve the existing combustion (with kydrogen I guess - wikipedia hasn't heard of kydrogen but I am sure its a conspiracy).

How ever one has to understand why engine has such low efficiency. The reason is not incomplete combustion in any sense. There is the valve train that has to be spun - you make work against the valve springs and various frictions. The piston is not capable of capturing even nearly all the pressure created by the combustion.
If your HHO powered (or assisted) machine would gain huge amount in efficiency I assume that the radiator can be removed - as there should be no exessive heat. Exhaust must be pretty cool too.

If you would double your mpg (as some HH0 people claim - or even claim dropping the consumption by 90%) you would definitely be creating net energy - as there is still the work to be done. Even if some weird way (not possible with current engine geometries) the engine's efficiencies did go up and there was no wasted heat you would still need to do the work - push car or boat or what ever the engine was set to do.

To gain of 90% would suggest that a car that uses 20kw at 40mph cruising wouldn't be getting 40mpg but 400mpg - so there would be conventional energy of about 2 kw left.
The rest 18kw would have to come from burning hydrogen - created by the electrolysis - powered by alternator - powered by the engine - powered by the hydrogen. See what I am getting at. It would mean that you could recover several multitude of energy from the hydrogen compared to what it takes to create it.

Before someone can EXPLAIN where and on what principle the extra energy is created this is a nonsensical perpetual machine.

Again if this would work - some greedy mofo would have built a backyard powerplant or two. Screw burning it in otto engine - make a proper powerplant running with hydrogen. The best part is that you can make closed circuit - exhaust is collected back as water and can be split again to hydrogen. Awesome - except real life electrolysis has pretty bad efficiency - and HHO people suggest efficiency of over 100% (more like 600-900%)

Above is described the reasons for our "narrow minded" mindset. I have not seen a single explanation on where the energy comes from? Everyone is proving something they cannot explain - goes back to the earlier posts of how science is made
"we think thing A is going to happen based on principles B - now lets test it..."
Here we have a group Proving thing A happens - "because I think so but I can't quite verbalize it." "...oh but it is revolutional"

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proofs. Except just ordinary proofs would do.

[kistinie]

I made the test myself with butane and hydrogen on a 35 years old stationary diesel motor at, idle driving a constant load (friction plate with dynamo meter)

Torque x2 at low rev, (not tested at full speed)
Oil burnt should be less, but not measured yet
Very clean burning

Guest of the test : My friends, that are farmers, engineer, or fishermen
Not magical, just great and low cost improvement for existing motors.
Extraordinary ? Yes for 5 minutes, when you discover how deep you are fuc.. by industry

And again, Water, HYDROGEN or BUTANE injected catalyse the combustion process for full combustion, so energy balance is not only addition
Water gives also a mechanical effect by reducing exhaust gas volume, so increasing air flow

Additional solution to lower diesel consomption is to add 5% of unleaded and 100ml of acetone for 60 Litter ...but personally only tested Vegetal oils (colza) with 10% decrease (5 to 4.5 /100L)
Vegetable oil really reduces consumption

[kerosene]

oh I am sure you can use gas as fuel - I just can't believe you can create the gas for free.

[kistinie]

is free ?

No of course but given for free most of the time.

Labour to get the gas is what you pay for. So in a way, it is not free, but you get free from oil

Not free just like for the oil company that make you pay transport, extraction, advertising, taxes, corruption, but not really the oil.


So i agree, in a way, it isn't free ;-), you just change the jail, but a jail where you now have the keys

[kerosene]

using human and other waste for biogas is totally different topic. All for it if it can be feasibly collected. Using waste vegetable oil - great idea too etc.

However it has nothing to do with the hydrogen creation systems discussed here.

[kistinie]

is having power, energy, trust, with the less total overall cost using existing devices and "free" products like sun and water
subject is using much less oil by hydrogen help

[mydauphin]

kistinie, you must be from France.
When you go to the baker does he give you bread for free.
The wheat is cheap, it comes from solar energy.
But it has labor, he needs to support his family, his mistress.
and if he adds too much water to flour the bread is no good....
Same with engines, energy, laws of economics, physics....
Go back to school and study physics, economics, thermodynamics, friction.