Diesel/Electric Propulsion for Sailboats

[Vega]

Fisher Panda in agreement with Catalina Yacht is going to outfit a Catalina 44 with a Diesel electric motor ( 26 kw). After sea trials the boat is going to be presented at the St. Pete boat expo, this fall.

http://www.fischerpanda.com/html/agree.html

http://www.fischerpanda.de/doc/eng/n...25701A0041013F

[HawkeyePierce33]

Here is another site that might be a little cheaper for the do-it-yourselfer. Has anyone tried one of these conversions? www.re-e-power.com

[Raggi_Thor]

Re-e-power!
Very interesting and rather low cost, compared to the european (Denmark and Austria?) solutions probably mentioned before.

And in a sailboat, the batteries can be used as moveable ballast :-)

[HawkeyePierce33]

Yes, and here in Canada we can buy adsorbed glass mat batteries at our national hardware store for about $105 for 35 A-h, and solar panels (if you look hard) for about $5/watt.

[Vega]

Well, I have good news about the Diesel electric solution. I guess that everybody has understood that I consider it the best solution for a cruiser, even for a sailboat, or should I say a Motorsailor... cause it looks that today all true cruisers have some kind of motorsailing capability.

Anyway I would like to have one of those systems in my next boat but I want to avoid the inevitable problems and ningles that a new untried system will give.

To sort out those problems, nothing better than a mass-market product...and it happened already. One of the boat companies from the Beneteau group has produced a boat that comes standard with a Diesel-electric...and there is not even an option for a conventional engine...and the boat is not more expensive than the previous model with a conventional engine.

The boat wastes a lot less fuel, can work for hours only on the energy from the batteries...and it looks too good to be true.

Beneteau says that this is only the beginning of the conversion of all their boats to Diesel-electric.

I guess that it is only a question of time before Bavaria join forces with Fisher/Panda.

What boat am I talking about? Come on guys, I will let you have the pleasure to find it out

[Vega]

Ok, the boat I am talking about is the new Lagoon 420, made by jeanneau (JTA), a member of Beneteau group. They have produced 260 Lagoons in 2006 (all models) and they have received already 60 commands for this model. If you command one now, you will have to wait one year for delivery…and the time for delivery is increasing rapidly because they didn’t expect so much interest in this new concept.

Here are some info about the boat and the propulsion and energy management system:

http://www.cata-lagoon.com/pdf/Lagoo...ochure2006.pdf
http://www.catamarans.com/news/2006/..._Lagoon420.asp
http://searchwarp.com/swa61868.htm
http://www.sail-world.com/newstext/p...estTimeOut=180

For the ones who can read French, there is a big article and a boat test in the September edition of "Voiles et Voiliers".

[FAST FRED]

Just wondering what the price would be to put 75 to 150 hp to a prop , compared with a std shaft and tranny.

FAST FRED

[Vega]

Fred, I believe that the price has a lot to do with production numbers. If you have to customize each installation the price will be probably 2 times bigger, than the one you can offer if you made 100 standard systems.

[FAST FRED]

"I believe that the price has a lot to do with production numbers."

Then the advantage would have to go to a hydraulic drive for an unconventional boat , and std tranny /shaft prop to a conventional boat.

Here is a new boat plan that might or might not ever get built , and work.

http://www.dsehybrid.com/

Interesting that they will build the engines foward with a WT bulkhead .

The only vessel I have seen with this engine location , Feng Shuey (sp?) was a large 60 ft or so motorsailor with a 6-71 in the bow , and 2 gen sets!
It had a mechanical windlass driven off the front of the DD , and at least 45 ft of shafting with pillow blocks and a std prop.

As sleeping foward in a sea way stinks , it looks like a great idea , esp since engines don't have to weigh 3000+ lbs for reasonable output. She had completed 2 circumnavigations.

FAST FRED

[mattotoole]

I'm curious about the output of these regen systems (Solomon, etc.) under sail. How many amps at 6kt, for example?

[bertho]

mattotoole,
i wondering to.. probably less +-1 knt for the sailing boat and ..somes amps. ?? as propeller are not desing to work on this side..forget foldable prop, but you will have noise from shaft, vibration on the rudder... I don't think we can have the butter, the money and the farmer..
cheers

[Raggi_Thor]

Originally Posted by bertho

..I don't think we can have the butter, the money and the farmer..
cheers

You mean we can't eat the cake and have it?

[bertho]

raggi, yap! .. french sentence.. ( sometime we talk also about the wife of the farmer.!!.)
rgds

[Raggi_Thor]

I would like to hear that one, about the wife :-)

[Vega]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

"I believe that the price has a lot to do with production numbers."

Then the advantage would have to go to a hydraulic drive for an unconventional boat , and std tranny /shaft prop to a conventional boat.

FAST FRED

Probably you are right. If I bought a cruising boat right now, I would still choose a conventional std tranny/shaf prop and a Genset, or I would buy that Lagoon, that has a Diesel-electric std system (with an adequate warranty, on all the system) and that is not really an option because I don't feel comfortable with cruising Cats.

But, looking at the huge interest that the hybrid Lagoon has raised between clients and given the Beneteau group interest in applying this system to all his range of cruising boats, this actual situation (regarding production numbers and reliability of the system) is going to change fast and in some few years (hopefully) this system will be the standard choice to all true cruising boats, at least to the ones that now need a Genset and an Engine.

The initial costs will not be superior and the advantages of the Diesel-electric in running and maintenance costs, not to mention the substantially increased flexibility in the possibilities of the interior design, will be overwhelming.