Diesel/Electric Propulsion for Sailboats

[Vega]

Originally Posted by bonding

I have ordered a sail boat. Most of the things can be customized. Since I will have a genset, I think it might be good to have the diesel electric system. Everyone says that it is a good system with a lot of advantages. But except cost, nobody gives any adverse comment. Boat yard tells me that since it is new in sailing boat, maintenance may be difficult and may not be as reliable as a diesel engine. Can anyone give me some advice?

What is the size of the sailboat?

If you were going to have a genset, then the price wouldn’t be too different.
I had a talk with an engineer from Panda at the Dusseldorf boat show, (they had there a large display of their system). It looks they have had some problems with the control of the motor but they think they have solved all the problems and that the system is fully operational.

In Lisbon boat show I have talked with the local guys from Panda about the system and they didn't know anything about it, except that Panda was working on it (in Germany).

I guess that if you live near Panda headquarters (Germany) and don’t sail far away from it, it would be alright. Otherwise it would be more intelligent to wait a couple of years till they get a reasonable network of service points (if the system prove to be a good system, as I believe). I believe that the youth problems, if any, would not be not in the motors, but in the connections in between (lot of electrical stuff evolved).

Of course, Panda is, I believe, the leading company in the development for relatively small systems ranging between 10kw and 75kw (75kw electric = 100kw Diesel in efficiency). Much bigger systems for large yachts are more widespread and the leading development is in the hands of other companies. About those I know very little.

If you want more information about the Panda Systems (including prices) you can give me your email and I will send it to you.

[bonding]

Dear Sander Rave,

Because DE system is very new in small pleasure boats, I am hesitate to install one. I worry about its reliability. Normal diesel engine will have problems. But every mechanics can repair them. A genset may have problems. But even it does not work, it does not render your boat immobile. A diesel engine is rough enough to work even in big heeling angle in rough sea. But how about the genset in a DE system. Can it work at the same heeling angle as a normal diesel engine?
My boat will have a diesel engine and a genset. If a DE system has been tried in much bigger ships and very reliable, I say to myself why I should not install one when the price is not a lot more.
All I concern is reliability. All the readings show that it needs less maintenance than a normal system.
The boat builder, a German one, told me it might be too new and when something gets wrong, not many people can repair it. And may be very expensive too. Besides, the electric seems much more complicated than normal. While there is a principle of keeping everything simple at sea, it seems not a wise choice to have a complicated wiring system. The genset and the motor may be robust enough. Porblem may happen in the wiring side.
I will use my boat here in Hong Kong in the Far East where boating is not as popular as in Europe. Hence, maintenance knowhow is definitely not as advanced as in Europe.
Ultimately, as a boat owner, I do not want to buy a system and it does not work well. You know, you will be laughed at by your peer for making a stupid choice.

[bonding]

Dear Vega,

My email is sales@bonding.com.hk. Thanks.

[bonding]

The boat is a 32ft decksaloon. Engine is 29HP Volvo saildrive.

[Sander Rave]

Dear Bonding,

I feel the argument in your consideration for keeping it simple in your side of the globe will stand. I get the feeling you already made the right decision by head, and now your heart neads to be persuaded you're not over conservative ;-)

I believe the genset functions just as wel as any diesel in rough seas, but wiring and electronic malfunction are two fields where you need very skilled people to stay out of trouble.

Be wise... if you feel you don't have the right support back home, where else do you want to get it?

[Vega]

Originally Posted by bonding

The boat is a 32ft decksaloon. Engine is 29HP Volvo saildrive.

It is a Sirius?

[bonding]

Dear Vega,

You are right. How do you feel about it?

[Vega]

Great little boat. Fact is that if you see only the interior of that boat you would never guess it is only a 32ft. Excelent interior design, very good craftmanship, and a relatively fast sailing boat too.

Nothing to do with the wauquiez (the wauquiez is now one of the Beneteau associated brands), They don't customise boats anymore, and it's now an industrial manufacter. Its quality is peraphs a little better than beneteau, but in my opinion it is not getting better, quite the opposite.

Sirius is a family business, the boats are made individually by people that have great pride in their boats and craftmanship. They are enthusiastic people that obviously enjoy what they are doing and looking at the final product I would say that the price is a fair one.

I am interested in knowing if they manage to completely satisfy you, and of course, when you get the boat, your personal impressions about its sailing charactheristics, compared with the wauquiez 40ds.

[bonding]

Dear Vega,

Sirius does satify me. I love their workmanship very much. Almost all my wishes are fulfilled. Provided that you don't alter the constructional frame, everything is almost possible. When I first saw the Wauquiez, I was attracted by the roomy saloon and big suite behind. But when it came to really using it, I found a lot of space was only wastage. You simply don't need that much space. The Sirius is just like my dream boat. Small but big.

[bonding]

Dear Sander Rave,

I talked with the Fischer Panda dealer in HK yesterday. They knew about this DE system and was willing to offer their assitance. From the talk with them, I feel my worry eased a bit. Three years ago, I had installation problem with the genset in my Wauquiez. It was not installed professionally in Wauquiez. There was a lot of vibration and very noisy. So I had to ask the then Panda agent to come. But he was a one man company and always not in HK. Now, I am reliefed that Panda finally has a proper agent.
Now, I really think I will have the DE system.

[Vega]

Originally Posted by bonding

Now, I really think I will have the DE system.

I hope that it will work alright for you, for us it will be a valuable first hand information on a very interessant and promising system. Please keep us informed on everything about it.

[Grantman]

Nordhavn Yachts has built one diesel electric and is currently in the build processs of another: http://www.nordhavn.com/constr_con/diesel_electric.php4

[Sander Rave]

In the latest issue of Proffesional boatbuilder there's a little posted article about pre's and cons of diesel electric through the eyes of a Solomon's technology director of engineering. He refered to an article in No. 97 (October/November 2005) About the Fisher Panda system. If you can't lay your hands on these articles, I am willing to scan them for you.

[Grantman]

or just view those Professional Boatbuilder articles regarding Whisperprop and Solomon at proboat.com :

http://www.proboat-digital.com/probo...rity&b=2&pg=12

and

http://www.proboat-digital.com/probo...rity&b=2&pg=18

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/m_m.htm

[Sander Rave]

Thanks, that safes me some scanning :-)