Diesel/Electric Propulsion for Sailboats

[kistinie]

Originally Posted by mp459

Apex brought up CPP: "install a CPP with a Diesel!"

As for power, remember, boats use 120 volts, 220 Volts as well, on the AC side. So it's not a matter of voltage.

120 and 220 are AC, far less dangerous than DC
Size and condition of maintenance of the boat matters a lot


Sorry about CCP, tells me nothing more, Who or what is Apex ?

[apex1]

Originally Posted by mp459

Apex brought up CPP: "install a CPP with a Diesel!"
As for power, remember, boats use 120 volts, 220 Volts as well, on the AC side. So it's not a matter of voltage.

Controlled Pitch Propeller

.......120 and 220 are AC, far less dangerous than DC................
and the statement above is just too broad to be true, as always, when it comes to boats and ships ... it depends.....

and have a look through my links above, everything!!! is said about El propulsion and El on board. You will save money reading it!

Regards
Richard

[masalai]

playing 'devils advocate' - no regulation may be better then the fools who disregard learning and safety issues, would possibly no longer be with us (or in jail for manslaughter?)

I think, in Australia, 72v is high and requires a qualified electrician....

[kistinie]

what about 7 high skew blades submarine propellers , looks nice. Anybody can make some composite ones to pull our boats ?
20 to 40 cm diameter could fit many applications on leisure boats.
A good reliable low friction shaft with an end bearing is useful too. From here anything can be connected.
Even on a pod could be smart solution
Anyone tried this kind of 7skew propeller on a boat ?
May be sensible to garbage as plastic bags ?
Does performance fail is too close to surface ?

The high voltage no regulation winners ! will go ! to :
http://www.darwinawards.com/

[kistinie]

Originally Posted by apex1

Controlled Pitch Propeller

.......120 and 220 are AC, far less dangerous than DC................
and the statement above is just too broad to be true, as always, when it comes to boats and ships ... it depends.....
....

Regards
Richard

Electricity is wildly used to torture human beings, can the result of these experimentations be public in order two know what is a dangerous level DC, AC, low amps, high voltages, high frequencies...
More seriously, what is the medical documentation about the effect of electricity on body?

[apex1]

Originally Posted by kistinie

what about 7 high skew blades submarine propellers , looks nice. Anybody can make some composite ones to pull our boats ?
20 to 40 cm diameter could fit many applications on leisure boats.
A good reliable low friction shaft with an end bearing is useful too. From here anything can be connected.
Even on a pod could be smart solution
Anyone tried this kind of 7skew propeller on a boat ?
The high voltage no regulation winners ! will go ! to :
http://www.darwinawards.com/

There are almost as many ideas as boats out there. Every type and size of prop was tested to some extend. Pods are really not new and sometimes choosen on Mega´s. (but have as many drawbacks as advantages).
A well designed prop, that fits the average use, is a good and affordable choice for EL propulsion. For a Diesel the CPP is the only choice for the real cruiser. The slightly higher investment pays back soon due to lower consumption and substantially healthier and longer engine life.

QUOTE --- Electricity is wildly used to torture human beings, can the result of these experimentations be public in order two know what is a dangerous level DC, AC, low amps, high voltages, high frequencies...
More seriously, what is the medical documentation about the effect of electricity on body? UNQUOTE

Interesting statements, but how deep will you go, if you examine the dangers of boating? Do´nt go too deep (just my recommendation), you might stay on the hard for the rest of your life. And that´s proven unsafe as well!
Regards
Richard

[kistinie]

Originally Posted by apex1

Interesting statements, but how deep will you go, if you examine the dangers of boating? Do´nt go too deep (just my recommendation), you might stay on the hard for the rest of your life. And that´s proven unsafe as well!
Regards
Richard

you are right, but don't Worry for me, I'm feeling great and not staying on the hard
i sail boats with more or less dangers,
You need to know that most women, child and i , prefer the boat without dangers :-)

[apex1]

Originally Posted by kistinie

you are right, but don't Worry for me, I'm feeling great and not staying on the hard
i sail boats with more or less dangers,
You need to know that most women, child and i , prefer the boat without dangers :-)

A bottleship................................

We all would like to minimize risk to zero. The question is to wich extend is it possible without going absurd?
I like parachuting, motorbiking, flying my little plane, blue water cruising and the opposite sex. All unsafe, sometimes dangerous or even lethal. Does it make sense (for example) to reduce the power of my bike? No, others can kill me as well at 40kmh (one tried that) as at 240.
And if the source of electric propulsion (proper designed and installed) is the greatest danger you fear on your boat, why do you look for such system? You do´nt look for nuclear power, wich would be possible (in theory), and safer to handle during operation.
It´s not possible to have the best of both worlds, we just can choose the (in our opinion) lesser evil.
Regards
Richard

[kistinie]

I'm afraid i do not understand, sorry !
My english fails, can you explain me better what this means "too broad to be true" and "it depends" for boat,


About maximum volts in a boat, again, in you country what is the maximum you can use in your bathroom when wet ?
Is that 12 or 24 V or more ?

Under heavy weather, the ship i have used looked much more like bathrooms playing with shower, than a house or a car .
50 / 60 feet boat and bigger are not that wet till late...But who owns more than 60 feet boats ?

[masalai]

Here is an alternative, surface drive propeller, for small fishing craft in the Med or near Penang Malaysia? designed by Sonny Levi

[kistinie]

nice object.
Very nice job

With a fairing ? To do a pump-jet ?
What could be the efficiency ?

Could be done something in this spirit with composites to be lighter and cheaper too ? (kiwi style prop)

[masalai]

I doubt it - - unless your build budget is HUGE.... That is a 17 inch wheel and would work wonders on a boat one would expect to see with a "long-tail" in Thailand/Malaysia...

[apex1]

Originally Posted by kistinie

nice object.
Could be done something in this spirit with composites to be lighter and cheaper too ?

Lighter yes, naturally, cheaper no, naturally not, three times the price is average.
As mentioned before: you cannot have best of both worlds! But that has nothing to do with boats, that´s life!
Can your Porsche transport a Fridge? Does your Transporter make 280kmh?

To your question above, I am producing for the world market, so, national regulations are not important for us, we have to stay whithin the international class rules. Our boats are 240/50 AC or 220/60 AC and 24 DC. My own is 400/240/50 AC / 48 DC.
For Diesel / El. propulsion I would go up to about 100V DC minimum. And that can be done as safe as every other installation.
But I assume you are mixing up the different El circuits in a boat. For "house" applications 12 or 24 DC are standard, and there is no senseful reason to go above, and I have never seen that.
I´m shure you do´nt see the engine room on a running boat as a nice playground for children, so, the Battery bank is neither.

Regards
Richard

[kistinie]

Originally Posted by apex1

Lighter yes, naturally, cheaper no, naturally not, three times the price is average.
As mentioned before: you cannot have best of both worlds! But that has nothing to do with boats, that´s life!
Can your Porsche transport a Fridge? Does your Transporter make 280kmh?

Regards
Richard

Yes, the Porsche Cayenne can !
But i do not need it.

I understand you better like this.
For mass production voltage will be high to be compatible with car batteries that are 100 - 250 volts. I agree.

But for such installation standard level will need to be high and signal warning marking compulsory ... just what industry usually does to reduce risks.

For all the others home made solutions 60V is great to have good results on light or small boats.
The smaller the boat is the closer you are to the wires !

Thanks for answer !

Kind regards

François

[apex1]

Originally Posted by kistinie

For mass production voltage will be high to be compatible with car batteries that are 100 - 250 volts. I agree.
François

No Francois, no, first, ....car battery of 100 - 250 VOLTS ???? More likely Amps...?

And the choosen installations in our boats (which are never mass products, see my Gallery), have nothing to do with compatibility. DC is compatible to every system. Car batteries are usually not found on boats, thats crap.

I would really, strongly recommend to follow a given advice and to read the articles I linked to. Which obviously you have´nt done. What is our effort here worth, if it´s ignored.

Regards
Richard