Diesel Electric Conversions - Are Systems Available

Originally Posted by CDK

No Masalai, you are on the wrong track.
Some people write such a bloody nonsense that nobody should ever read again, they really need a WROM. I think that's what Richard meant.

207 points Cornelis!

Of course a WROM does not exist. For what (except the use you mention) could it be good?

And obviously nobody noticed that I was referring to: >>>>Dihydrogen - monoxide, and Hydroxyl - acid.<<<<
in the same post!

You sometimes drink that bloody stuff! Even in high concentrations, jaahh......

[baeckmo]

Originally Posted by apex1

WROM = (write only memory)


ahhja
life is hard

Yepp, would be much easier to cope with life if moderator used the WROM-link to reroute some of the bullpoo straight down to the black hole and poured some dihydromonoxide on top....... Great idea; write only, gone forever!

[masalai]

Ahhhhh, did I get suckered - What a mouth I am sometimes? - a WOAMOWROT; an old and not often used ?Dutch? word meaning - - Write Once And Move On Without Reading Or Thinking....

[kistinie]

WROM: is Just a basic
"Empty-off-topic" style,troll attack
Thread's SABOTAGE !!!!!
Energy vampires
Time eater
Parasite
Pollution
...

I feel better.

[masalai]

I thought that was ETETPP

[kistinie]

Read again our trolls' post on all hybrid topics
Action is always the same : Destruction
You have noticed, i guess, that our Trolls are very skilled engineers.
In spite of this deep knowledge...a recurrent superficial systematic opposition to electric powering of boats, water injection to I.C.E, or quantum's physics today's applications, is expressed using non accurate or absurd facts, covered with a global "look down" patronizing texture.


A troll will never get deep in the subject he decides to troll.
A troll is only here to make you loose time, energy, keep you on the surface of problem.
Discussion with Trolls is most of the time sterile.




hybrid electric vehicles is a nowadays pertinent technology solution as it positively answers the question of getting to lower energy need and better efficiency using existing tools and products.
All bricks are available : Motors PMBL, controllers, batteries, efficient, light, simple ICE
But sadly these products are not designed to be assembled all together.
The actual vacuum of consumer "ICE/Electric hybrid" solutions packages or just coherent bricks like the rather compulsory genset for direct battery connection, is a real, marketing mystery as deep, as our trolls motivations :-))
Actual industrial production is at least anarchic, more realistically manipulated.




To answer this problematic situation we are in, do our own solutions.

- Layer one : Free Open Democratic World Collaborative Research. We share all knowledge as a not patentable positive richness accessible to all that can. Layer one is a true and real. LINUX is a bullet proof clue it is possible, realistic.
- Layer Two : We manufacture and sale, as much as possible, where we are for evident T.O.C and stability reasons by using layer one common knowledge. Layer two is on the way with the great step done for Cellular phone charger normalisation.

Again ; global thinking + local independent acting = Peace and efficiency



Trolls job is to prevent this equation to be :

- Layer one: Trolling forums, trolling scientific GOV institutions, Troll your right to have an idea already expressed by another with the patent concept, Trolling the ISO normalisations to prevent dangerous to profit interoperability, Trolling your life paying as much as necessary for your soul.
- Layer two: Troll all business into very high income, short life products, troll access to sensible products and matter, Troll the access to funds.




When have enough knowledge to design and manufacture industrially reproducible prototypes that fit most common needs.

- Universal Controllers for battery connection to any group of motors or power source of its class.
- Universal geneset giving a mechanical and electrical output in a standardized I/O position box format.
- Universal open controll software standard


To use the technology, boats, car, houses, are free of all other choices, only the I/O to universal bricks must be respected.
Then your today's life become.....Your geneset is broken, no problem this other brand available next door is interoperable.
you raise the available product choice as any smart builder can offer alternative design and still stay connectible by normalisation respect.


Global thinking bring exponential increase to creation, local acting, the adaptation skills to local specificities.

[masalai]

kistinie,
Easy on the paranoia - we have our own experts on that, and need not of extra expertise in that field....

If you do not like your reception, then is it not probable that your welcome has worn a little thin, - or, - your "trolls" need entertaining so play their game, why not? - - - but as a serious topic for scientific analysis/discourse the session has either ended or moved to another forum.... As I have heard others submit "...go in peace my child..." but not necessarily from this forum has such been said - implied? possibly...

[kistinie]

Troll are necessary...yes in a way, without them life would be boring, much too simple !

Paranoia ?
Sure!
Industry cares about us with respect, love and understanding...just like finance world and medical labs.
They love us like tigers love fresh meat
When we get a gift for flu, a squaleme and mercury bonus is offered !
True respect indeed


So the question remains asked to us:
Wait for donuts to fall from the market sky or spread the compulsory normalization principle initiated by the cell phone charger normalization example?

Originally Posted by kistinie

Maybe but actual situation i paint is real.
The question remains to us:

Nothing you said on this Forum was ever real, baby. Only dreams and phantasy. But you do´nt get it ever, hopeless.

Originally Posted by kistinie

Read again our trolls' post on all hybrid topics
Action is always the same : Destruction
You have noticed, i guess, that our Trolls are very skilled engineers.
Trolls job is to prevent this equation to be :

You think all are trolls.
The one who builts almost everything on his boat himself, a electronics engineer.
The other who makes more boats a year, than you have been on board.
The next, who builds exactly what you are dreaming about, but not to your outer space standards, of course.
The boat designers, boatbuilders, Naval Architects, contradicting your nonsense.

All Trolls...................

The only clever babe around is our little Kristine.....
Go, make your kitchen chores. Let the adults play with the difficult questions.

[kistinie]

Originally Posted by apex1

Nothing you said on this Forum was ever real, baby. Only dreams and phantasy. But you do´nt get it ever, hopeless...You think all are trolls....The only clever babe around is our little Kristine.....
Go, make your kitchen chores. Let the adults play with the difficult questions.

Your talk is troll song, extreme banality about my total incapacity, boat builders, adults, clever versus stupid...
A big salad of commun ideas
Useless "Café du commerce" talk !

Come back to the sea level please :-) and please explain us your position about important aspects like normalisation.

NORMALISATION of product is compulsory to lower cost and energy footprint.
Cell phone example is a major event to follow

This normalisation aspect doesn't attract your attention ?
Is this normalisation aspect taken in account by the HYMAR's project (2M€ funded by Europe) managers ? Can a HYMAR member answer this ?

This is a very important question.

[fcfc]

What do boat rental think of hybrid systems :

http://www.bareboatsbvi.com/catamaran_lagoon420.html

And even, the catamaran was the best case to go hybrid : big electrical load, and they could remove two propulsion engine only at the price of a larger genset.

[kistinie]

This example would need more technical details like, Weight, trawler use instead of sailing boat use... to understand better causes, for the moment it is just a case among many others.



But if you do not mind i 'd like to have at least one answer about normalisation for electric generation products coming.
No one cares about it ?

If we do not care we will have the automotive situation with 1000 different incompatible references for each equivalent and nearly identical part.

1000 engine mounting size
1000 uncompatible voltages
1000 communication protocole
1000 different way to screw the propeller on shaft
1000 control display cut size
.....

In this case, guess who will loose ?
All of us.


At least 90% of technical parts could be interchangable for same class size cars.
Reallity is ...just a few.
How to justify 100 different thermostat incompatible for [88°c / 2" diameter] ? class
How to justify the same engine block gets minor useless modifications that prevents from a compatible use with it's brothers cars

The bad experience of automotive mess we are in will happend again with hybrid solutions.

This situation is above KAFKA's worst nightmare
And everybody feels confortable with this ?

You want to have this again for the future for the hybrid generation ?
So Easy !!!
Do nothing and trust the trolls ! We will have it !


WAKE UP !


One reaction please !

Normalization is used for helping us waste less.
Do not be afraid

You are not becoming communist ...i guess ;-) when you accept the idea that interoperability must be increased between manufacturers. The normalization deal is a win-win deal as all the system gets the benefits of wasting less.

Till this hypothetical event ;-)), i suggest to do the work ourselves, now.

Just imagine the power of a shared "linux like" world research and development, connected to local manufacturing.
I bet that so many people like me are so unsatisfied with the industrial offer that we could be a lot motivated by the project.
This will also allows us to choose our manufacturers and decide of the qualities we ask, the product and the production line.

It is definitively time for a different organization of creation and production

[powerabout]

There was/is a couple of megayachts built in the 90's with electric drive.
One done by Amels called Maputi 48m ( ish) ended up very nice, easy to make very quiet, had 4 or 6 gen sets and was about 30% more expensive than conventional drive.
You get to put the engine room where ever you like and or in several places.
I think they were all 3406 cats
Same spares for eng and gen sets
Fast and cheaper overhaul cost ( should you ever overhaul them), even simple to repower/addpower if you wanted to
Would be much more fuel efficient from slow to maybe cruise ( depending on the prop curve )as you can drive both props with one gen
( full speed probably less efficient)
Was built that way to sneak up on whales in the Arctic. ( was also built ice class)

(I know of one megayacht that had a 2 in 2 out gearbox to make use of this cruising efficiancy of 2 props with one engine.)

Originally Posted by powerabout

There was/is a couple of megayachts built in the 90's with electric drive.
One done by Amels called Maputi 48m ( ish) ended up very nice, easy to make very quiet, had 4 or 6 gen sets and was about 30% more expensive than conventional drive.
It was closer to 100%

You get to put the engine room where ever you like and or in several places.
That is just theory, the weight distribution does not allow that!
I think they were all 3406 cats
Same spares for eng and gen sets
Fast and cheaper overhaul cost ( should you ever overhaul them), even simple to repower/addpower if you wanted to
That is not true! The gensets have a shorter (some have a much shorter) servicelife than the average engine in common propulsion service.

Would be much more fuel efficient from slow to maybe cruise ( depending on the prop curve )as you can drive both props with one gen
( full speed probably less efficient)
The efficiency is better only at slow speeds / trolling. All other ranges require more fuel with a Diesel / El. system.
Was built that way to sneak up on whales in the Arctic. ( was also built ice class)
The vessel was built icegoing! Not iceclass, there is a hughe difference.

(I know of one megayacht that had a 2 in 2 out gearbox to make use of this cruising efficiancy of 2 props with one engine.)

Diesel electric is not efficient for yachts. period

And before this questions pops up again, yes, I know what I am talking, I operated Icebreakers in the Baltic from third officer to master. All Diesel El.

And: Maupiti was the name.

Regards
Richard

[powerabout]

Originally Posted by apex1

Diesel electric is not efficient for yachts. period

And before this questions pops up again, yes, I know what I am talking, I operated Icebreakers in the Baltic from third officer to master. All Diesel El.

And: Maupiti was the name.

Regards
Richard

All true
( it had half frame spacing so twice as many..I wondered about that..and same thickness hull plating?

How about sneaking up on whales??