Car engine vs. outboard

[powerabout]

Originally Posted by bearflag

I apologize, I was speaking about gasoline/petrol engines, gasoline direct injection is fairly new for them.

Modern EGR "can" increase efficiency by reducing throttling losses and by lowering combustion temperatures which in a forced induction application can allow more boost.

We can nitpick over the details, for no good reason. But i think we will both agree that modern automotive engines whtehr diesel or gasoline are both more efficient than small boat engines? yes?

EGR has been and gone. It did lower pumping losses and lower temp to reduce NOx.
Very few modern si engines have it these days.
BUT tier 4 diesels do

Small automotive engines are used as boat engines so if the rules allow they might polute more but there is no reason why they are not the same.
Cat cons are coming to SI engines next year both Volvo and Merc have one model out now with them.
They were delayed as not too many people made cat cons for production engines like Merc's 1350Hp and others

[bearflag]

Originally Posted by powerabout

EGR has been and gone
Very few modern si engines have it these days.
BUT tier 4 diesels do

Small automotive engines are used as boat engines so if the rules allow they might polute more but there is no reason why they are not the same.
Cat cons are coming to SI engines next year both Volvo and Merc have one model out now with them.

Yes, there are better ways of dealing with this problem, like more complete combustion in the cylinder.

Very lean burn is one of them. The EPA here in the states forcing auto makers to burn at stoichiometric ratios for so long hasn't helped the advancement of automobile engines.

[Marco1]

Originally Posted by bearflag

No... not in the USA.

The Tacoma and Tundra do not have the wonders to which your Hilux has enjoyed for so long. CARB is responsible for this horrible, horrible travesty.

http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6543...med/index.html

[powerabout]

The big hurdle the oems are working on now is the EPA-CARB have asked them to flag engine service light to come on with a single misfire.
Thats going to introduce to clever technolgy..

[powerabout]

The Mercruiser 1350 has direct fuel injection, whilst not new ( gulwing Benz had it) its more then most have at the moment in SI engines and its ONLY a boat engine!!

[bearflag]

Originally Posted by Marco1

http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6543...med/index.html

Yeah, funny about that right? I swear 2009 and 2010 models are on the road, but no diesel.

I know a lot of people who were planning on buying a new truck, but it never happened.

They actually showed the truck off at SEMA in 2007. Never went into production.

[bearflag]

Originally Posted by powerabout

The big hurdle the oems are working on now is the EPA-CARB have asked them to flag engine service light to come on with a single misfire.
Thats going to introduce to clever technolgy..

My Tacoma is 49 state emissions exempt. No smog testing for the life of my car. However, I live in California, so yeah, that would be the one state that it isn't exempt.

[powerabout]

Originally Posted by bearflag

My Tacoma is 49 state emissions exempt. No smog testing for the life of my car. However, I live in California, so yeah, that would be the one state that it isn't exempt.

I thought that just meant you could register it in the other 49 without a test?

[powerabout]

Brings up another question
HOW are the epa going to enforce/test emissions on boats?
In the field that is..

[Brian@BNE]

The car engine I'd really like in a boat is the BMW X5's 3 litre straight six diesel, which has one awards in Europe for 'best diesel yadda yadda'. And its the motor that Yanmar use for their 6BY2-260Z stern drive.

So here's the solution - buy a Yanmar and stick it in your Toyota or Tundra! Better still, stand it on its ear and turn it into an outboard and leave the junk in the carpark at the boat ramp.

One of these Yanmar's has pretty much the same weight as 2 x 130Hp 4-stroke gas outboards, so no real penalty there. Fuel economy in a marine application should be pretty good?

Trailerable planing boats with one or two Yanmar's are the obvious application, and should be top performers. But the initial cost price might be rather unfriendly.

And high revving turbo'ed diesels don't seem to be favoured for displacement vessels. But why wouldn't they be economical at 2000-2500 rpm with the right prop? I guess to get redline/WOT you'd need a CPP though.

[FAST FRED]

The Mercruiser 1350 has direct fuel injection, whilst not new ( gulwing Benz had it) its more then most have at the moment in SI engines and its ONLY a boat engine!!

Had the pleasure of owning a 300SL , the roadster .

The most amazing part of the vehicle , which for its day had great power to engine size was its ease of driving.

It could be put into 3rd at 20 mph , and floored.

It accelerated slowly (till 3000rpm+) but there was no bucking , or lack of smoothness from such a highly tuned engine.

The large trucks have all but given up in EGT as it costs so much in fuel and performance.

The newest truck engines use a Urea muffler system , another tank to fill, but the mileage goes from 5.5 to 6.5 mpg to almost 8mpg.

I understand this is the seceret of the BMW exhaust , the tank is refilled at each 15,000 mile service.

For boats the ability of using selective firing on a modern common rail engine might solve 2 problems.

At low loads only a couple of cylinders would fire ,each with a good load , so no cylinder burnishing or slobbering from underloading, and this should also allow the better fuel burn from a well loaded cylinder.

FF

[powerabout]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

The Mercruiser 1350 has direct fuel injection, whilst not new ( gulwing Benz had it) its more then most have at the moment in SI engines and its ONLY a boat engine!!

Had the pleasure of owning a 300SL , the roadster .

The most amazing part of the vehicle , which for its day had great power to engine size was its ease of driving.

It could be put into 3rd at 20 mph , and floored.

It accelerated slowly (till 3000rpm+) but there was no bucking , or lack of smoothness from such a highly tuned engine.

The large trucks have all but given up in EGT as it costs so much in fuel and performance.

The newest truck engines use a Urea muffler system , another tank to fill, but the mileage goes from 5.5 to 6.5 mpg to almost 8mpg.

I understand this is the seceret of the BMW exhaust , the tank is refilled at each 15,000 mile service.

For boats the ability of using selective firing on a modern common rail engine might solve 2 problems.

At low loads only a couple of cylinders would fire ,each with a good load , so no cylinder burnishing or slobbering from underloading, and this should also allow the better fuel burn from a well loaded cylinder.

FF

DDEC from the 80's can do selective firing
Not that that helped the old girls with emissions I guess
I guess it doesnt work if the engine is turbo charged as it will kill the other cylinders as well if common to that turbo
Some of the big MTU's do this as they have plenty of turbos so they shutdown selectively

GM has reintroduced cylinder shut off in the current small blocks...seems like there is still mileage in 2 valve pushrod motors,

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by bearflag

Now you are just making me jealous. I have actually made several inquiries for importing this very engine for an off-highway 4x4 of mine. California EPA will not certify it for highway use though.

I've talked to toyota and a few owners groups like SAN etc, about this..

Ha,-- they are there right under your nose, Yanmar uses them, go to the marina and you will see them in their hundreds.

Yanmar 6LP I got 2 of them in my cat, take the yanmar badge of the cam cover and it stares you in in the face TOYOTA. Its also on the block.

Yes they put them into to pick ups for a wheel burning monster.

[FAST FRED]

DDEC from the 80's can do selective firing

Today's solution is simply very low rpm , US trucks will cruise at 1250-1350 at selected highway speeds (60-75mph), transit buses (low speed) cruise at 1100rpm !!at under 55 mph (less wind drag)

Diesels simply run better with as close to 100% load as you dare , 100% load at any rpm , not just flank as the boat marinizers would have you believe. The CPP is popular because of this .

FF