We build the Best Boats?

[Kevin D]

I am considering the purchase of a Boat Distributorship. Here are the claims of this manufacturer as to why their boats are so well constructed.

I assume that there are some near experts and some legitimate experts who may post here, so I decided to get the take from some of you. Any input will be appreciated. Thanks.


"WE BUILD THE BEST BOATS IN THE INDUSTRY



We are sure you have heard this “line” from almost every boat builder out there. However, when
you ask them specifically why their boats are better, most will clam up and tell you that their
materials and procedures are “trade secrets” and will only give vague answers.
Things are different at ###Powerboats. The staff at ### Powerboats continually
strives to give our customers the best quality boat possible at a reasonable price. To back our
claim, we let everyone know exactly how our boats are built. The following is a detailed
description of how we proudly manufacture an affordable ##P. Unlike high volume, low
quality boat builders that use a “chopper gun” to mass produce boats, ##P does not even own a
chopper gun. In addition, these same high volume manufacturers use the low cost “woven
roving” instead of the more expensive, but lighter knitted bi-axial fiberglass and carbon fiber. All
boats built by ##P are hand laid using the latest technologies and materials to ensure that your
new boat will look and perform as new, for many years to come.
Believe it or not, the very first step in producing a high quality boat is producing high quality
molds and in fact, to produce a high quality mold the absolute first step is to create an extremely
high quality “plug”. This is where the difference starts and this is where the quality starts to
show. Next time you’re at a boat show, look down the side of a boat, if it has more waves than
the ocean, you instantly know that the owners of the company are only concerned about making
a profit and are not true boating enthusiasts. How about the gloss of the gelcoat? If you can’t see
your reflection in the finish of the boat, then that means they are using inexpensive gelcoat or did
not take the time to properly prepare the plug. This is the first difference between ##P and the
others, the Plug. All ##P plugs are extensively worked before making a mold from them. All
body lines are absolutely “straight” and then wet sanded with only “Mirka” sandpaper from
Finland. Wet sanding all the way up to 2000 grit before the plug is polished produces an
extremely high gloss even before final polishing with 3M polishing products. All ##P plugs are
done in black tooling gelcoat from “Duratec” so that even the smallest scratch or wave can be
identified and corrected before the mold is made. The more time spent on the plugs and molds,
the better the boat will be.
No sense in spending countless man hours producing perfect plugs and then using inexpensive
materials to produce a mold. This is why ##P utilizes the most expensive and up to date
technologies available to produce the absolute finest molds found anywhere in the world. These
molds are produced with LHB-3350 Vinylester Hybrid Tooling Gel Coat from HK Research and
POLYLITE PROFILE Tooling System (33540) from Reichold with virtually “zero shrinkage” to
guarantee the molds will be exact reproductions of the original plug. Of course, there is no
chopper gun involved or is there any woven roving.
The beginning of a high quality ##P is the gelcoat. After the molds are properly waxed, 18 to
20 mils of “Armorcote” gelcoat is applied from “Cook Composites,” the undisputed leader in
marine gelcoat technology and to guarantee a glossy finish for years to come. When the gelcoat
is cured, a layer of chopped strand mat from is applied using a “Reichold” chemicals “Hydrex”
vinylester resin for excellent surface cosmetics. Most boat companies would then proceed to
apply the bulk laminate, however ## Powerboats allows this “skin coat” to thoroughly
cure before applying the bulk laminate. By allowing this skin coat to fully cure, any chance of
unsightly “print through” is eliminated.
The most important part of any fiberglass boat is the bulk laminate, this is what gives the boat its
strength. With the exception of a few very expensive offshore power boat companies, the vast
majority use woven roving. Again, ## Powerboats, along with these few select offshore
powerboat companies, utilize only “Lloyds and DNV” approved knitted biaxial fiberglass from
“VectorPly”, another leader in fiberglass technology.
Ounce per ounce, biaxial fiberglass is, by far, stronger than woven roving, due to the fact that it
is knitted in a straight line and not woven which also creates voids and pockets that use extra
resin to “wet out” the fiberglass.
Not only is the boat stronger with “Biax”, but it needs less resin, so the boat is also lighter.
Again, great for racing!
Why doesn’t every boat manufacturer use this glass? It is simply much more expensive!
The final fiberglass is an average of 3/8” to over 1/2” thick in the keel, where the biax is double
layered, to take those pounding shocks from jumping the waves.
The hull is then completely flotation foam filled to add extra impact absorbing strength for rough
water capability and to meet stringent US Coast Guard flotation requirements.
The hulls features a “pad keel”, which gives less hydrostatic resistance to the water and in turn
gives you more speed. There are also 4 full length strakes for great handling and safe
Now that you know how the fiberglass part is manufactured, lets talk about the rest of the boat:
Unlike the mass produced boats that are riveted together, the hull and deck of an ##P are
through bolted and then “Plexus” adhesive is extensively used to completely bond and seal the
two together. This extra step guarantees no water will leak through when experiencing rough
water conditions. The rub rail is screwed on and then sealed with 3M brand “5200” for a perfect
All hardware such as the fasteners, lifting eyes, etc. are all marine grade stainless steel. All
wiring consists of corrosion resistant tin plated copper which meets or exceeds NMMA and
Carpeting and upholstery is made of high grade marine materials for the best in UV resistance.
Ok, so you’re wondering why does ##P go through such great lengths to produce an entry level
little speedboat? The answer is simple: ##P wants happy customers returning for larger and
even faster boats!!!! They will not be disappointed!"

[Landlubber]

Kevin,

The above describes how most boats are built, since the 1990s at least.

Today, epoxy resins have proven to be even better than polyester or vivylesters, so these descriptions are certainly NOT the best built boats at all, though they certainly do sound like WELL built boats.

[CTMD]

What he said...

ask them why their moulds aren't made from metal rather than FRP? How do they attach the support frame to the mould? What is this frame out of? Is there additional structure under cleats etc. in the deck? Where are they using cores and what are they? What is the internal structure out of?

[Fanie]

Never heard of any boat builder who will be honest and tell you 'we build the second or third or tenth best boats'...

The best boat is the one the customer likes the best and which is the best value for money.

[Ike]

Actually the "best boat" starts with the design. You can build a crappy boat well, or a well designed boat crappy. The goal is to build a well designed boat to the highest standards possible.

I also agree with the above comments. By the way, hand lay up doesn't necessarily make it a good hull. The Italians build boats using automated systems untouched by human hands and the laminate is second to none.

Wow, "stingent U. S. Coast Guard requirements". The truth is everyone who builds a monohull powerboat under 20 feet, has to meet these requirements. I spetn 25 years enforcing them.

Most of this is PR from their marketing department.

[Wynand N]

and I wear a "Seville" suit with the finest silk shirts from the east, "Pierre Cardin" tie and socks, "Gussi" crocodile skin belt and shoes. To top that off, I wear a nice ring from "Cartier" and a "Rolex" watch and glasses by "Diesel".....

Does this makes me a "better" or "best" person

[Kevin D]

Thanks for the input guys.

As this subject veers toward the ridiculous, as most things on the internet tend to do, let me try to put a stop to it.

Please understand that I do not, for a minute, actually believe that these people are actually "Building the Best Boats", as I realize that in the end, it is a matter of opinion, and NO ONE could legitimately make that claim.

I am not a boat builder, and do not know as much about it as I do about my own profession and that is why I sought out "expert" advice.

It sounded to me that they are making legitimate efforts to build GOOD boats, as Landlubber put it.

Thanks again.

[Stumble]

Despite the marketing hooie, it does sound like they are trying to make high quality boats to me. The two things that really stuck in my mind though was that while they said they use hand layed glass they didn't mention if they are using wet lay or putting up the glass by hand then vacume infusing it.

From everything I have read (I am a pretend expert by the way) there is no argument that vacuume infusing builds stronger, lighter, and more consistant boats than wet lay up. So I would definatly check this out.

The other thing that caught my eye was the fact that early in the press release they mentioned they didn't own a chop gun, then later talked about using chop as a skin on the hull (perfectly reasonable practice in my eyes). But how are they applying the chop mat?

[gonzo]

Hey Kevin. I think you need to hire someone with the expertise to go and check out the boats and the factory.

[Kevin D]

Yes Gonzo, if it gets that far, by all means I am going to go to the factory myself. Some of the info that I am getting here are the questions that I will ask. Thanks.

[apex1]

Originally Posted by Kevin D

Yes Gonzo, if it gets that far, by all means I am going to go to the factory myself. Some of the info that I am getting here are the questions that I will ask. Thanks.

There are some more!!!!!!
Marketing is all you have to know first hand!
The way they make their product is just average practice (from the description), nothing wrong and nothing to ignite a firework.
But to give you a example:
if you´re able to produce a "Mercedes S Class" at half the cost Daimler Benz does, are you able to sell it? Same quality, same design, same , same , same!
NO
not a single one! Except you "are" Daimler.

I produce on the very upper end of price and quality (never claimed to be the best though, there is no "best" in a market of compromises), but my quality sells only after some 30 "thirty" hard years! And only to repeat clients! The rest is MARKETING.........
I´m sure you´ve got it,
buy a Hotel on Bali, enjoy at least that there is no business, if there is no business, and relax.
Boatbuilding is a joy! Selling the crap is a different thing. And the markets (especially in the US) are buyers markets. I, personally, would NOT take over a US boatyard for free at present! (all debts incl. naturally).

And Stumble: by hand, naturally! Chopped strand mat is layed by hand!

Regards
Richard

[G.G.]

I have only one thing to say and once being employed at Skater for over 12 years Peter Heldin of Douglas Marine , has been a pioneer setting some very high standards in the industry utilizing all composites from Epoxy ,Carbon Fiber ,Kevlar ,S and E glass , along with Vacume bagging and is forever building some of the finest boats on the planet using composites today .

[apex1]

Originally Posted by G.G.

I have only one thing to say and once being employed at Skater for over 12 years Peter Heldin of Douglas Marine , has been a pioneer setting some very high standards in the industry utilizing all composites from Epoxy ,Carbon Fiber ,Kevlar ,S and E glass , along with Vacume bagging and is forever building some of the finest boats on the planet using composites today .

Whoouw............ that I could learn that..............thanks.
any important contributions?

[G.G.]

Originally Posted by apex1

Whoouw............ that I could learn that..............thanks.
any important contributions?

What would you like to know most of the boats i work on are Skater's and i just finished the gas tanks on a 32 Skater this week because the new generation of fuels are eating thru the epoxy tanks and a friend of over 18 years who has worked at Douglas Marine for over 18 years is a laminator at Skater . I have to say that most of the materials i purchase come from Douglas Marine ,considering i only live minutes away and go there often .

[apex1]

Originally Posted by G.G.

What would you like to know most of the boats i work on are Skater's and i just finished the gas tanks on a 32 Skater this week because the new generation of fuels are eating thru the epoxy tanks and a friend of over 18 years who has worked at Douglas Marine for over 18 years is a laminator at Skater . I have to say that most of the materials i purchase come from Douglas Marine ,considering i only live minutes away and go there often .

Hello, calm down,
there was no competition here, nor any fight.
The only question was:
is it worth the investment!
so reply to that!
If possible with all your knowledge!

R
R