Teen Restoring 16' Fiberglass Boat, Need Help

[djkingmatt]

I decided to do the transom first, and I figured out the runners are good, just have drill holes because the other owner drilled the floor on, lol, so I re-foamed it with Great Stuff Gaps and Cracks, and I'll put more glass over them later. I was wondering if I shot some foam under the front runners where they were coming up a little, making sure they were dry with a hairdyer first, then added glass to reattach them, I think that would work, because the whole front is going to be reinforced by filling with foam and a little glass anyway. The transom, is rotted all through so I'm removing the top of the boat, and scraping the rotted wood from the top, applying some of the rot doctor stuff that dries it out and kills the rot spores, then cutting some new plywood to fit, coat it with the other stuff from rot doctor, then cap it off again, I have a good hold now -Matt

P.S. How does a black hull with white and blue interior sound??

[djkingmatt]

Here's the crack, and unattaching runners in the front, and a picture of the emblem and nose, Does anyone know what this is, and where some pictures are of it restored, I'm stumped!

[Ssor]

Can't help with the source of the pics. The area of separation should be bonded with polyurethane adhesive caulk and reinforced with csm and woven roving and resin after you have ground the old glass clean and washed it with acetone( NO SMOKING).

[marshmat]

On the structure:
Sounds like you're finding your sea legs pretty quickly, Matt. The approach you're taking is about what I'd do, too- carefully stripping everything down, taking out everything that's rotten, cracked or delaminated, carefully building it all back up with new material. Carefully unbolting and removing the deck, if possible, would make it a lot easier to work up in the bow. As Ssor says, it is VERY IMPORTANT to clean things thoroughly with acetone before you glass over them. Fibreglass resin has waxes in it; they're necessary for the curing process but they stop new resin from bonding on top. Acetone or wax-remover solvents clean the surface so that the new resin can stick. Clean it until you think it's clean, then scrub it twice more. The extra few minutes are well worth it for the far stronger bond you'll get.

On the looks:
Black's an extremely rare colour for boats, mainly because a black hull shows imperfections a lot more than a white one. If you're willing to take the time to get the hullsides smooth, and follow the paint maker's instructions to the letter, a shiny black hull will look absolutely stunning and will turn heads anywhere. (Given two similar 120-foot yachts, the $15-million one is usually white and the $30-million one black or navy blue- dark colours look classy!) A blue and white interior and solid black hull would then give you a classic, elegant, high-class look. If you prefer a racy look, I'd suggest red and white interior, with red pinstripes on the black hull.

Have you looked into powering this baby yet?

[djkingmatt]

Marshmat-I'm gonna see how much foam I can get in it, and how much stuff I have in it, I'm looking for a 75, maybe up to 100 outboard, 2-stroke to get more pick-up. As far as paint goes, I like black, and I have time to buff it to make it look good, a white or blue stripe maybe, but that's a lot later on, how much HP do you suggest, because I wanna have a good time, but I don't wanna flip it!

Ssor, acetone, ok, on the next homedepot trip, what's csm? Is that special caulk you need to buy, because we have some stuff my uncle uses around the house, you think that might be it? Speaking of woven roving, that's just fiberglass right?

Thanks all -Matt

P.S. Does anyone know anything about this kind of boat, the owner said it was one of the boats out of one of the old James Bond movies or something, i dunno, It has a windshield, but the boat's a little stripped down right now so it's not there.

[marshmat]

CSM is Chopped Strand Mat. This is a type of fibreglass that is not woven but rather has short strands looped and twisted at random. It is used because it is easy to form into tight shapes, but is not as strong as cloth. Roving is a type of fibreglass cloth with thicker bundles of strands and a looser weave than regular cloth.

About your engine plans. I take it the boat does not have a Capacity Plate, which means you will have to phone the Coast Guard in your area and ask how to get one. All outboard boats must have this plate. In Canada, this is a very easy process- you simply take about 48 measurements of the hull at certain points, put them on a form, and mail it in with some photos. I imagine the process in the States is similar.

I believe the same equations are used in Canada and the US to calculate this. The procedure is as follows:
Find the "Static Float Plane" (SFP) of the boat. This is done on a hull like yours by taking a straight line from the lowest spot on the top of the transom or motor well walls to the bow. Technically, this marks the greatest volume of the hull that could be submerged before water comes in. All calculations are based on the volume below this plane, which you can estimate using some Grade-8 geometry.
Now find the length parallel to the SFP, between the bow and the vertical centre of the transom. This is the Calculation Length (CL).
The Gross Load (in kg) is the total volume below the SFP (in cubic metres), multiplied by 200.

The maximum load is: Gross load (kg), minus 1/5 of the boat weight, minus the engine weight (kg). Divide by 75 to get max # of passengers.

To find max power:
Find "Numeral". Numeral = Gross load (kg) x Transom width (metres) divided by 1.382.
Your hull will likely fall into what is called Curve 2.2 power ratings. Numeral times 0.05 will give power in kilowatts for this type of hull. Divide kilowatts by 0.75 if you want horsepower.

You will likely be surprised by how small the result is. If you can find out the original builder and model, you will likely get a higher rating (usu. about 10-15%). There are myriad reasons why, but production boats with a known builder are generally rated higher than individual boats of the same size. The equations work very well for boats over five metres (16 feet); it's much harder to get it right with smaller boats though. Needless to say, putting a bigger engine on than the plate says is dangerous and illegal.

The above procedure is what the Coast Guard does to calculate these numbers. When submitting the forms, all you give them is the length, the beam at six points, and the hull depth at thirty-six points. They plug this into a spreadsheet and out pops the answer. I would try to do this ASAP as it takes them a few months to do it.

-----
PS- Sunset Chaser, my boat, is rated for 20hp on the plate. I later found out that I had taken the SFP wrong and the volume was actually much larger than I told them. The transom has also been modified since. By the equations she is actually rated for 30 to 35 hp, but it is too big a pain in the butt to get the plate corrected.

[djkingmatt]

thanks, what do you think it will be average?

[marshmat]

It's kind of hard to guess without the actual dimensions. From what I can tell from your photos and what's been said so far (correct me if I'm wrong):
You DO have a full motor well.
You DO have remote steering.
You have an LOA of 16 feet (4.88m) and a beam of about 5 feet (1.52m).
Your hull appears designed for a longshaft (20") engine; plus motor well this gives you about a 30" (0.76m) hull depth.

My guess (and this is only a guess, I have not done the actual calculations so don't take my word for it) is you should be looking for a 50-60hp engine. Maybe a 75. It's very hard to estimate without more dimensions and photos.

There should be at least two marking plates on the hull: a HIN plate (the boat's serial number, like a car's VIN) on the top starboard corner of the transom, and a Capacity Plate somewhere on the inside face of the transom. In your case, one or both may be damaged or missing. If so, I'd get in touch with the Coast Guard or Department of Transportation (not sure who it is down where you are) and ask about getting the capacity plate. That will tell you for sure what your max motor size is.

[marshmat]

OK, an update on Alpex Boats:
From what I've been able to find, Alpex was a line of fibreglass sportboats built by Alumacraft. They appear to be a '50s-'70s line and I have found very few out there. Most are like yours; 16-18 feet and in need of major repairs. I found a thread about this same boat type on another forum at http://my.boatus.com/forum/forum_pos...&PN=2&get=last

This is the best site I could find: it is a restoration of a 1965 Alpex Bali (same model as yours). http://home.gci.net/~akchappy/ is the address. You might want to try to get in touch with that guy as he's describing almost the exact same issues that you've had with your hull.

[djkingmatt]

Awesome! I couldn't find ANYTHING! Lots of thanks. The owner said he got it to almost 60 with a old 75HP, but he said that was with the previous owner with olny one person aboard. Personally, I don't think that's possible, but he said the max was 75, I'll e-mail the people on those sites and find out what they were, and see if I can do it that way through the coast guard, or get their dimension when they did theirs. I was aiming for a newer 75, because I really care about emissions, especially in water, because I really admire fish and stuff like that. Lots of thanks -Matt

[rharris8]

Can somebody speak more to the urethane caulk? Who manufactures it?
Where can it be purchased?

[rharris8]

Be careful with the great stuff foam. There are actually two types - one that expands like crazy when cured and the other expands a little less when cured.
I put some around a doorwall on a new house construction and it expanded to the point where the door couldn't be opened until I went back in and scraped it out. I don't think your stringers need that.
What did you come up with for a gloss black hull? The bottom paint I've looked at has a matte finish. I'm prepping my hull to where a gloss finish would look great.

Bob

[Ssor]

Originally Posted by rharris8

Can somebody speak more to the urethane caulk? Who manufactures it?
Where can it be purchased?

The most well known is by 3M , their 5200, also there is PL premium at Home Depot, Sika makes Sikaflex and there are many others. All are to be had in hardware stores, marine supply houses, online, etc.
The urethane caulks are very strong, tough, stick like a brother, and are durable. Some of the better acrylic,urethane blends are nearly as good and easier to handle.

[wildwaters]

matt still working on your boat????
i emailed you about it.
i have one thats in mint condition, wondering if you needed help. still looking for all info about this boat my self . would like too get bourchers and stuff.
my boat is all original mint interior- all complete- including a sportfour evinrude 60s - 65 or 85 hp. boat is turn key go and have fun used 10 to 20 times each summer / barn kept / covered and winterised and summerised life of boat. i believe this modle too be rare/hard too find / true classics and very attractive. question is what kind of money do they bring? i do want too sell. i have 3 boats and no 4 wheller. tim - chief2feathers@hotmail.com 715-547-6249. matt i told you i will take some pics of the boat interior so you can see the seats and dash and floor and any othere help i can be, let me know tim