question is how much vacuum is required ??

[tunnels]

Sucking a core into wet glass how much vacuum is needed ?
Sucking a core into core bond how much vacuum is required ?
How much is enough??
Can the vacuum ever be to high ?
and if so what happens if it is ??
Should the core be wet out first ? and if so how wet should it be?
Should the resin have kickoff (Gelled) before the core is put down into the wet glass or the core bond ?


FOOT NOTE TO THIS IS IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RESIN INFUSION !!

[hoytedow]

It takes very little. As long as you maintain less ap inside than out you have succeeded. The atmosphere will do all the rest of the work.

[tunnels]

Originally Posted by hoytedow

It takes very little. As long as you maintain less ap inside than out you have succeeded. The atmosphere will do all the rest of the work.

Very little as in ?? can you put a figure to that ? like % of ultimate vacuum on a scale from 1% to 100%

[hoytedow]

As long as the pressure inside the bag is less than 1 atmosphere, the pressure outside will keep the collapse ongoing unless the bag is something rigid like titanium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_(unit)

[tunnels]

Dosent any one use a vacuum gauge ?? why not ? its all just guess work ?
Come on !!

[hoytedow]

When there is nothing left in the bag but solid and liquid with no gas of any kind you have succeeded and no pressure gauge is necessary. Solids don't compress. Liquids don't compress. Only gas compresses and properly done the gas is sucked from the bag.

[rwatson]

Tunnels !!!! Of all people who is an expert in foam coring work *you* have to ask such a basic question. ????

By now you will have guessed that hoytodow doesnt have the foggiest idea,but its not that hard to find out luckily.

The answer is - it depends, and it is improratnt that you have the right amount - in fact you may have to control the vacuum separately over different parts of the mold. The vaccum rate controls the speed of the infusion, and some bits may want a slower rate to avoid dry spots. In some parts of the mold, you may need to increase the vacuum to "force" difficult spots.


a ten second Google search brings up sites like -

http://www.performancecomposites.com/tech_article2.html

which quotes " the air is evacuated from the part using a vacuum pump (approximately 27 in Hg)." (Hg is mercury, 27 is mm)
One standard atmosphere equals 14.7 psi (29.92 in.-Hg)

Also, if you do a bit of basic searching in this site, you will find you can get enough vacuum with an old dairy pump, for example - its not a huge bit of machinery to find thank goodness.

I cant find my copy at short notice, but duck down to your local FG shop and get a copy of Goegeon Bros "Resin Infusion" booklet. Its well laid out, and easy to read, with lots of usefull hints.

[lewisboats]

Hg is mercury, 27 is mm)

small correction... in(inches) of mercury is in inches...not mm

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by lewisboats

small correction... in(inches) of mercury is in inches...not mm

whoops - thanks for that :-)

Next correction: our "expert" asks for bagging, not infusion!

Sucking a core into wet glass how much vacuum is needed ?
Sucking a core into core bond how much vacuum is required ?

Richard

[rwatson]

Yes, a good point - the word INTO should perhaps be better expressed as ONTO do you think ? Made me think of infusion straight away.

Thats going to require even less pressure - some people have used Vacuum cleaners for small parts, but the motors burn out when the airflow stops.

[tunnels]

Originally Posted by apex1

Next correction: our "expert" asks for bagging, not infusion!



Richard

Correct !!To suck down a core ! Infusion is something differant !

So no one uses a gauge , why not ??How do you know when you have enough suck ??How much is enough , thats the question im asking ?

Originally Posted by rwatson

Yes, a good point - the word INTO should perhaps be better expressed as ONTO do you think ? Made me think of infusion straight away.

I understand. Yes "onto" was obviously meant, but hey HE is the "expert", as he has proven here again:


Vacuum Bagging honeycomb core


Richard

[powerabout]

You are going to have to test Tunnels as its dependant on the viscosity of your resin.
Do a test on a flat bench and then cut the job so you can measure the area and weigh it to determine your resin to cloth mix
I buggered stuff with too much when using very thin epoxy but never have a problem with vinylesters which also set up in 20 minutes so that for sure helps not to pull the resin out of stuff.
A guy I ask advice of in the states does a ramped up vac from about 5-6in to 20 over time with epoxy.
He has custom made hardeners ( hence custom curing times)as he has both feet in the door of some chemical companies.
My experience is less is more..
more disasters with too much vacuum
I only do repairs....

[tunnels]

Originally Posted by powerabout

You are going to have to test Tunnels as its dependant on the viscosity of your resin.
Do a test on a flat bench and then cut the job so you can measure the area and weight it to determine your resin to cloth mix
I buggered stuff with too much when using very thin epoxy but never have a problem with vinylesters which also set up in 20 minutes so that for sure helps not to pull the resin out of stuff.
A guy I ask advice of in the states does a ramped up vac from about 5-6in to 20 over time with epoxy.
My experience is less is more..
more disasters with too much vacuum
I only do repairs....

Believe it or not but you have almost answered a part of the question i have asked .
There is no one simple answer to what i asked ! I am amazed out of all the proffesional people here that no one has a proffessional answer to the simple questions .
Repair work you can learn so much from other peoples mistakes !! look and learn and try to understand why things break the way they do !!