Quality control on small fiber glass yards

[Vulkyn]

Well i have been in the printing field for 16 years now and i have seen a remarkable change in customer understanding and grasping of quality, consistency and good practice.
Clients have matured so to speak to a point where even if they are not technical or have printing back ground a large % are able to determines a good or bad printing jobs.

This was achieved by mostly educating our clients, new printers coming in the market and the general appreciation of better quality. As more people did it more people started requesting it.

Taking this in mind i visited a couple of yards in both wood and fiberglass and it felt like how printing was 14 years ago. (and about 20 years behind the US)
There seems to be a very large gap between common sense and reality.

So i start poking my head around and find some interesting methods in making fiber boats consistency (keeping in mind i am talking about the Egyptian market which is very far off US and Europe market).

What would the guidelines builders should stick too? and how to monitor it?
How can clients push for better controlled and consistent product?
From a manufacturing perspective i am able to understand that yards wont survive with out as a client i want to demand a good product.

A Quick example would be the use of digital weight scales in polyester, several control boats would be built and the amount of material used deducted from the original value and taken on overage.
That way there would be some sort of measurement on consistency of each boat build!

(Keeping in mind that we lack technical know how, experience in the field 20 years one company the rest 5-7 years. The lack of high tech technology and funding limitations. So its how to get the best result with good practices so to speak.)

There are some good builders in Egypt (couple but yachts only) and the smaller sizes are left in the hands of trial and error builders not something too encouraging for potential buyers :S

I am just opening this for debate from where i stand the problem is common sense more than technical know how ... (well both actually)

[Vulkyn]

Yes i am crazy, yes i am a perfectionist, yes i take life to seriously and yes i do enjoy driving my mind crazy .... better me then vice versa

[Vulkyn]

Looks like problems i am facing are more common then i thought!

http://www.docksidereports.com/deale...ifications.htm

We do not have marine surveyors in Egypt (and if we do i am not sure they would be qualified enough).

[Vulkyn]

ISO standards might be an interesting read ...

http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue...csnumber=42346

[mcollins07]

Vulkyn,
Do these yards have any formal quality control process in place at all? Where they have written procedures and review point where the build can be stopped or re-routed?

You could identify stages of the build where you would like to have the opportunty to inspect the boat for quality? The payment structure then incremented in these same stages?

I would think the designers specification are typically used for quality control inspections. A lot would depend on your designer's emphasis on quality control.

[tunnels]

You could always employ a projects manager to take control of the manufacture of the boats from end to end !

[Vulkyn]

Originally Posted by mcollins07

Vulkyn,
Do these yards have any formal quality control process in place at all? Where they have written procedures and review point where the build can be stopped or re-routed?

No, no and no they dont. They utilize the "i have been in this field for some time and i know what i am doing" approach. (which i got rid off in my field by simply showing that there is so much to learn and there is so much to improve, this philosophy is just a way of killing improvement and progress.)

Originally Posted by mcollins07

You could identify stages of the build where you would like to have the opportunty to inspect the boat for quality? The payment structure then incremented in these same stages?

Yes i would assume that its the only logical approach is to do exactly that. bottom and top mold inspection for example. Tbh i want to help them take some steps in the write direction.

Originally Posted by mcollins07

I would think the designers specification are typically used for quality control inspections. A lot would depend on your designer's emphasis on quality control.

What designer ? they dont exist ! its mostly existing mold that "well worked". I have yet to meet a navel designer in Egypt. Even the big builders in Egypt send their design work abroad.

[Vulkyn]

Originally Posted by tunnels

You could always employ a projects manager to take control of the manufacture of the boats from end to end !

If you know some one please tell me !!!! Its probably easier for me to take several courses, travel for training, study and implement myself than finding some one who can do the job!!

They probably do a semi good job now, but for me not being able to monitor, measure or control the production and quality is a doomed philosophy.
People are like Balsa wood, if you let them stagnate they will just rot away, they need good preparation from the start and constant maintenance and care to keep it nice and shiny (and avoid rotting)!

Ok if been spending WAY too much time reading about boats ..... i need some dry dock time ... (oh dang it >.<)

I have to say im addicted to boats now truly so much so i really really want to switch my field .... maybe im just trying to find an excuse to work in boat manufacturing ... yes i lack a lot of knowledge but i know i can add a lot specially in the administration area .... its just me speaking out loud .....

[Herman]

If you hire a project manager, who has the daunting task of getting a quality control system running, and has to communicate with the workers, make sure he speaks your language, or at least has a good interpretor, who is knowledgable in your business, ready at all times.

Second, if you are coming from "way behind", the first step is training. I have no idea of your position and knowledge, but you might need training, your workers need training. First to ask is the supplier of materials. He should be able to tell you more.
How to store the materials
How to test the materials
How to use the materials
Which problems needs which solution
Applying gelcoat
Applying resin and glass
How much glass (make drawings of each boat)
Cutting, cleaning up, finishing
Woodwork
Polishing

You will need to fill in yourself how you are going to arrange all that. Will you make 1 or more persons responsible for quality control, which people to train, how will you organise the yard, will it be a gelcoat station, a lamination station, a cutting station, etc etc etc. People working at different stations need different training.

Also the economical aspect: What is the price of materials, of labour, of the finished product, margins, waste factor, can a training course make difference to these numbers, etc.

Recording of production. Will each boat be assigned a build number, with a book and / or simple instructions, so communication is not needed. (communication usually is one of the factors where things go wrong)

[Vulkyn]

Herman thank you for your very helpful feedback !!
I am meeting with the manager of the plant today to see if he wants to take his factory to a more organized level. I can offer him a lot when it comes to organization, work flow, administration, procedures etc... but little when it comes to technical know how for boats, it is something that will need practice and years of experience.
In my field what ever was too complicated i would break down to steps, simplify and do it in a way that is easy to understand and follow which is exactly what you mean.

I will have a look at your suggestions, organize them and see how we can proceed.
I will also start my own learning for each stage at a time, i am not sure if there are courses in Europe that can help me in that area or not ?

Please keep your input flowing!! And thanks for every one's contribution !!

[tunnels]

Think simple !!
How would you get on if you were deaf and had to learn a completely new job ?
Words get in the way most times and only complicate matters ,so you have to show !, teach by example !,Be able to do the job! hands on !! every aspect of the job and make a really good job !!
show why it is to be done that way!! But in saying that its time to take note of what they have to offer as well , This can be a two way street you need to walk ,an eager mind may be able to show you a easyer way of doing someting so the boot is on the other foot , the teacher becomes the student . Its also a good way to gain respect and loyalty from your students as well !! Teaching is fun and should be in a relaxed friendly work place .

Yeas ago i was able to take an every day house wife with 2 kids at school that knew absolutely nothing what so ever about fibreglass or boats and in less than 6 months she was made a leading hand, able to use and maintain a chopper gun and put the right quantity of glass in the right places , she was also a good gel coater , able to use and understand the workings of a Pressure pot and the gun its self , also a high pressure venus spray gun with internal mix and a inline heater system .
Its like teaching a child how to kick a ball !, do you just run and take a flying kick and hope or do you discribe by example how to do it ? and if it dosent go where its surposed to then what ? show and fully understand first your self why it did what it did and then pass on the information and make sure they undertand.
I have even worked with wooden boat builders that were completely unable to sharpen a blade in any of there hand planes or even change a Band saw blade and reset it so it cuts in a straight line !. As for sharpening a circular saw blade its totally beyond there understanding, but on the other hand they claimed to be a expert at there job and demand top dollar .
Who do you blame for there lack of understanding ? the person themselves or the teacher and what about the enviroment they were being taught in ?

The first and most important thing before you start is DO THEY WANT TO LEARN !! Not do they need to but want !!!
do they have the will to learn ?
do they have to support a family ?
is it a matter of there survival ?
Attatude and respect !
For the past more than 15 years I have encountered all of this in just about every place i have worked , doesnt matter what country i was in .

[Vulkyn]

What kind of quality control inspection can be done after the boat is done? Are there tests or ways to check the final boat is of the desired quality ?

Vulkyn,

my offer still stands! Come to Turkey, I´ll show you boatbuilding on every level imaginable and in every common material used.

(as a sidenote, there is not a single one "good" builder in Egypt by so far! Not even the one I mentioned in your other thread)

Regards
Richard

[Vulkyn]

Yah man i really really want to, but i am sort of very low on money atm but I am selling my car atm hopefully ill get some money out of it and i would defiantly love to take you on your offer as i know in my bones now this is what i want to do from now on

Originally Posted by Vulkyn

Yah man i really really want to, but i am sort of very low on money atm but I am selling my car atm hopefully ill get some money out of it and i would defiantly love to take you on your offer as i know in my bones now this is what i want to do from now on

Take care! That has to be a very good car (Audi, Mercedes, BMW) to pay for such a trip! Turkey is one of the most expensive countries near Europe!!! Almost everything accept Tomatoes are at least three times the price than in Germany, at far lower quality levels!

Regards
Richard