ONE of Construction? Spray to play?

[FAST FRED]

Reading Pro Boat builder I see the latest builders get a blank of foam machined full size and get a mold made from that.

LLoyds will allow an all chopper gun boat (heavier than layups but strong enough) ,

So Could we construct a boat by having the chopper gun ALSO computer controlled (no to thick or thin spots) and simply spraying glass on the outside of the plug?

After cure the cutting head could remove the interior foam , as its not structural , but could be usefull insulation an additional layer of glass chop could be sprayed over the inner hull.
2 or 3 inches of encapusulated insulation would be worthwhile north or south cruising.

Sure a bunch of exterior fairing would be needed , for that showroom finish , but thats scut work compared to actually creating a usefull hull.

Any other modern lower cost methods of constructing a one of?

FAST FRED

[nero]

There are also computer aided robotic arms for fiber layups. They impregnate, roll on, cut the fibers. Not sure where I saw the ad. Fairly certain they are in the aerospace industry.

This way a superior product could be built instead of decreasing quality for time and money.

Could actualy be an exception service. Imagine being able to draw the boat and then "print" it out as a finished part or hull.

[cyclops]

Does anyone have a approximate $ value for such a programable robot?

[Karsten]

There are all sorts of fancy toys around. Airbus installed a 3D tape layer a few years ago to make the skins of the vertical fins. This sort of machine could theoretically apply UD tapes to a hull mould. All these tapes would be prepreg so you would ave to cook the boat at least in an oven under vacuum.

"Normal" tapelayers are used for quite a while in the aerospace industry. They produce a layup on a flat table using UD tapes. This layup is then put on an ultrasonic cutter to cut the material to shape. Those machines have a knive that moves up and down about 20000 times per second and can cut almost anything including nomex.
With 3D modeling and stereo goggles you could probably design a boat, let the customer walk through it until he likes every detail, cut the whole thing on a CNC machine and just put it together.
There are certainly possibilities but lets be realistic. Most boats are probably built from hand sketches, 3D CAD drawings are still rare and cutting positive mould frames on a CNC router is currently high tech. Besides that a few guys in China knee deep in resin is probably cheaper than a robotic spray machine.

[FAST FRED]

"This way a superior product could be built ,,"

Yes , but a MOLD would be required and I'm attempting to do without.

First fantisy would be a "silk worm ' extruder , where a substance could just be laid on a floor and would harden almost instantly.

A vessel could be started with a 1/4 - 1/2 inch thick extrusion that would just be laid on itself untill the hull is created.
As the core is usually the weak part of a composite huge streignth would not be required , although low CORE weight would be nice.

Even if it only became the middle of a single skin hull the concept of an overnight boat has appeal.
Might even be possible to do intereior , but pre-cut from ply or similar would be as fast and lots easier to finish.

IF welding were strong enough , a roll of wire , a robot arm , and a boat of varing thickness for a bit of electric sounds great!!

FAST FRED

[dog]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

Reading Pro Boat builder I see the latest builders get a blank of foam machined full size and get a mold made from that.

LLoyds will allow an all chopper gun boat (heavier than layups but strong enough) ,

So Could we construct a boat by having the chopper gun ALSO computer controlled (no to thick or thin spots) and simply spraying glass on the outside of the plug?

After cure the cutting head could remove the interior foam , as its not structural , but could be usefull insulation an additional layer of glass chop could be sprayed over the inner hull.
2 or 3 inches of encapusulated insulation would be worthwhile north or south cruising

Sure a bunch of exterior fairing would be needed , for that showroom finish , but thats scut work compared to actually creating a usefull hull.

Any other modern lower cost methods of constructing a one of?

FAST FRED

You're barking up the wrong tree, there is no cheap way to produce a one off boat. If you re going to have a plug cnc'ed than why not at least have mould made so you dont have to spend weeks surface finishing it all

[dog]

and why bother with csm, use some foam core and proper glass for a stiff structure

[FAST FRED]

"use some foam core and proper glass for a stiff structure"

Am hoping to have a machine build a boat. NOT ME,,,, BTDT!

Have already done boats with Airex where you get to build a boat as plug and then the keeper boat over it.

The concept is an attempt to reduce all the work of lofting , plug building and sets of inside & outside layups to ZERO!

If the price is a bit of fairing , no sweat , its done on the Airex one offs anyway.

All concepts towards that goal appreciated,

FAST FRED

[marshmat]

It's hard enough to get a CNC-anything to make a nice uniform plug out of Renshape, MDF, foam or anything else, let alone make the part too. We do the molds and plugs for solar cars on CNC, and they still take many hours of sanding and fairing to render them useful. But given enough capital investment in machinery and technicians, it can be done quite effectively. Certainly a fully automated layup COULD be done, but I doubt that current technology (at reasonable cost) could get you a hull as strong and uniform as you can get with real live craftsmen. But progress in robotics is fast- 3D printing on an RP machine is now down to $10 per cubic inch, for instance. I imagine it will soon be possible to one-off a hull robotically via a CNC layup system, using not-yet-invented materials to build a hull from scratch with no mold or plug.

[yokebutt]

We use the airex forming the plug surface as the core for a one-off.

Yoke.

[gonzo]

Fast Fred: you are talking about a male mold versus a female mold. I think you are making a mold either way. Why not make a female mold on the CNC to start with? Even if you have to fair later, it would be minimal.

[marshmat]

Gonzo- I'm looking at doing just that for a project I'm working on right now. The problem is the material- you need something rigid, strong and light enough to move in a shop, that can stand up to (in our case) 50 psi at 120-180 Celsius in the autoclave. And shops with CNC capabilities of 5 metres or more are hard to find. But if you can find a suitable material and shop, it saves a LOT of work on tooling.

[FAST FRED]

"you are talking about a male mold versus a female mold. I think you are making a mold either way. "

A vessel could be started with a 1/4 - 1/2 inch thick extrusion that would just be laid on itself untill the hull is created,

OR

IF welding were strong enough , a roll of wire , a robot arm , and a boat of varing thickness for a bit of electric sounds great!!

NO MOLD , just want to get a boat with out the usual waste of time & effort with any mold!

FAST FRED

[gonzo]

A mold is not a waste of time or effort. Consider the amount of fairing if you don't. Are you set on a foam core or solid fiberglass? Cold molded with fiberglass skins gives you a fair surface. Female foam molds can be made in sections that the cutters accomodate.

[unhippy]

True stitch and glue designs require no mold or station frames.
See www.devlinboats.com
Lofting is easy but I suppose developable shapes could be cut intuitively if you don't mind a spin-out or two in the learning curve.

unhippy